JDNews. At the end of August, in Serbia, Emmanuel Macron signed the sale of twelve Rafale aircraft, allowing Dassault Aviation to exceed the 500 Rafale sold mark. Do you understand the reservations surrounding this contract?
Eric Trappier. It is a political will to show that a country close to Russia with which we have been “at war” is realizing that it is in Europe and is getting closer to France. We are part of this political will. There is no contract of this level without a political agreement. So it is a real success for us and it is also a real diplomatic breakthrough. Serbia will continue to maintain relations with the Russians, but now maintains a bond of trust with France and therefore with Europe.
Is there a risk of data leakage to Russia?
No, trust Dassault to keep its secrets. We are the first exposed, so if there was a risk, we would not take it for twelve aircraft. For decades, we have preserved our know-how to build aircraft of this operational level with such small teams.
You mentioned on Europe 1 a possible new contract before the end of the year. Is it India?
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We work with several countries, which makes me say that we have a good chance of signing a new contract soon. Whether it is before December 31 or January 3, it is completely indifferent to me. I will not tell you whether it is with this country rather than that one because there are always uncertainties in negotiations. We discussed three or four years with Serbia before signing, and this is a period considered short.
When you took over at Dassault Aviation more than ten years ago, the Rafale was not selling. Today, you have passed the 500 Rafale sales mark. How do you explain this success?
It took a trigger, Egypt [en 2015, NDLR]. The Rafale was also widely used at the time by the French armed forces in the Middle East and Africa. Today, I would say that the non-alignment of certain countries with one of the major blocs fits well with the Rafale, which is a very good operational aircraft like all Dassault aircraft in the past.
“We hired 2,000 people this year”
Marcel [Dassault, le fondateur du groupe] believed it when he saw the first plane come out. Serge [Dassault, décédé en 2018] believed in it all his life. And so do we. We never gave up and we are rewarded today.
The good news is that the order book is full. But now it’s time to deliver…
Yes, we need to ramp up at a time when we are emerging from a vacuum. We all forget it, but Covid was only four years ago, and in the industry, we are still in the restart phase. We hired 2,000 people this year in a company with 12,000 employees, that’s not nothing. But these are rather pleasant problems. It is better to have a full order book and work hard to get there than to have an empty order book and have to lay off people. There is no comparison.
How many Rafales should leave the lines each month?
In 2020, we were at about one per month. Our commitment for this year is to deliver about twenty Rafales. So about two per month today, without working in August. The objective is to increase to three.
It is important to remember that building a Rafale takes three years. Dassault Aviation is more of an SME among aeronautical defense companies, if you compare us to the American giants. In reality, we are a Formula 1 team.
France has committed to delivering Mirage 2000s to Ukraine. What is your role?
We are consulted because we will have to deliver a certain number of services, but it is a matter for the State. These are planes that belong to the armed forces, therefore to France.
There is the project of a Europe of defense. However, most European countries continue to buy American fighter planes.
Yes, the latest example is Portugal… It is NATO’s security umbrella over European countries. Even a country that does not have large means like Romania wants to buy American… We have been talking about European defense for thirty years. That is to say that it is a long-term affair. The theory is good.
“Today’s Rafale will continue to evolve”
A united Europe could do better than each country alone. But the practice, I see it, with all due respect to some: Europeans buy American. So if European defense allows us to buy more European, French, and Dassault in particular, I am for it. For the moment, we are far from that.
How is the Future Combat Air System (SCAF) project progressing, which you are working on with the Germans and the Spanish?
Studies are underway in Saint-Cloud, in our country. We are aiming for a first flight of a demonstrator in 2029. And if all goes well, we will have a first aircraft by 2045. In the short and medium term, the Rafale is the cutting edge of what combat aviation can be in France and in many countries. Today’s Rafale will continue to evolve, particularly with drones, and will go beyond 2050 .
Two years ago, Emmanuel Macron called for a war economy. Is that the case?
Some companies have gotten involved, mainly in the land sector, because that is where there has been the greatest demand. At Dassault Aviation, we have given priority to defense activities to respond favorably to the President’s request. We are paying attention to our upstream supplies, which is not easy. But I am not sure that the whole country is in a war economy. Does Bercy prioritize the defense budget? For now, let’s preserve the military programming law
