“Israel has lost its humanity in this war,” denounces Gideon Levy

Daily Haaretz Since 1982, Gideon Levy has become a rare conscience, regularly traveling to the occupied Palestinian territories. At column length, he denounces the occupation and apartheid. He, whose grandparents died in a Nazi concentration camp, is not afraid to criticize the policies of the State of Israel.

What was on your mind when you learned what happened on October 7?

I’ll be frank. First I heard that Palestinians had crossed the fence and I said to myself: “Oh, the Berlin Wall is falling. » I really felt that, and even a certain happiness. I think Gaza cannot live in a cage with eternal barriers. I thought maybe we were witnessing a protest that would lead to some form of freedom.

During the first hours, I had to write my column. My editor called me and informed me – which I didn’t know – that there were hundreds of Israelis killed. I realized it wasn’t about the Berlin Wall, and I changed my mind.

“October 7 came in the most brutal way, but after eighteen years in prison, people can go crazy. »

By the end of the day, it was clear that terrible things had happened on October 7th. It must nevertheless be remembered that what happened that day took place in a context. There is a reason for everything; This does not mean that I justify everything.

But, do you really think that 2.3 million people would live for eighteen years in the largest prison in the world and accept it forever? October 7 came in the most brutal way, but after eighteen years in prison, people can go crazy.

Netanyahu claims Israel’s right to defend itself. After 41,000 deaths in Gaza, can we talk about “defense”?

There was shock and trauma. I went to the kibbutzim and the villages attacked two days later; I saw terrible scenes. I’m not minimizing anything. But, from now on, everything happens as if we can do what we want.

We can kill 41,000 people without anyone having the right to tell us that it is criminal, illegal and genocidal? We can kill 17,000 children and call it self-defense? No. Israel has the right to defend itself, but not to commit genocide. October 7 does not give Israel the freedom to behave like a savage.

Why do the majority of the Israeli people accept this way of thinking?

Israeli society finds itself in one of the worst moments in its history. Since October 7, people believe that the only thing to do is to take revenge.

They are shocked by what happened and believe there is no room for empathy towards the Palestinians nor limit our aggression. This explains the incredible support of almost all Israelis for the war in both Gaza and Lebanon.

The expression of a certain empathy towards the Palestinians is almost considered criminal. Teachers have lost their jobs, Israeli Palestinians have been arrested for it. Israeli society changed a lot on October 7, and not for the better.

But the extreme right was already elected…

Exact. But everything came out of the box after October 7th. Racism, hatred of the Palestinians, the thirst for blood, the primitive greed for revenge, for punishment: everything has become legitimate.

October 7 also killed the so-called Israeli left. The protests you see here are very impressive, but they are not against the war. Make no mistake: it is against Netanyahu, for the release of the hostages, but not against the massacre, nor the famine in Gaza. Nor is it about what we do in Lebanon.

How can Israeli society continue?

It is very difficult to expect change from Israeli society. She is now totally blind. She was brainwashed. Nobody talks about peace, solidarity with the Palestinians, their suffering.

“People have lost empathy. They don’t see Palestinians as human beings. »

Israel lost its humanity in this war, and so did Israeli society. Israel can do whatever it wants, no one in the country will care. People have lost empathy. They don’t see Palestinians as human beings. For them, all the inhabitants of Gaza killed on October 7.

Do the Israeli people know exactly what is happening in Gaza?

No, he doesn’t know because the Israeli media avoids showing him the reality. Knowing that there are 41,000 dead is one thing. Seeing the images of children starving and dying on hospital floors is something else. French citizens have seen more images of Gaza than any Israeli who lives an hour from Gaza.

How is this possible in the age of social networks?

Thanks to the collaboration of free media, which behave like Russian media. Not because of government pressure or censorship. Because of commercial considerations. We know what people expect from us: they don’t want to see, they don’t want to know.

We will therefore not show them, apart from Haaretz. We are in the 21st^e century, there is the Internet, there are social networks, but you have to want to see. You have to choose to see. If you’re not interested, you don’t see anything. Most, if not all, Israelis don’t want to know.

How to fix what was broken?

I’m not sure everything can be fixed. I don’t see how we can get out of this when the Israelis have lost all hope of any type of settlement, of coexistence; when most Israelis believe that all Palestinians are Hamas and all Palestinians are the Nukhba – the Hamas special forces who carried out the killings on October 7.

I don’t see how when there is no media or leaders in Israel trying to change things. I don’t see a solution, unless the international community starts to act, as it did with Russia after the invasion of Ukraine or with South Africa, with apartheid. Russia invaded Ukraine within weeks. Israel has invaded Gaza and, now, Lebanon. Who is talking about sanctions against Israel? Person.

In Europe and France, criticizing Israel means being accused of anti-Semitism…

Ignore this. This is a cynical manipulation of Israeli propaganda. There is anti-Semitism, and it must be fought. But not everyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-Semite, for God’s sake! Most of them are not because they are people of conscience. When a French citizen sees the massacre of children and shouts “Stop it!” “, he calls on his government to do something. What does this have to do with anti-Semitism?

“No one dares say a word about Israel. Don’t fall into this trap: you not only have the right to criticize Israel, you have the duty to do so. »

This manipulation is very effective because Europe is paralyzed. No one dares say a word about Israel. Don’t fall into this trap: you not only have the right to criticize Israel, you have the duty to do so. The context is occupation and colonization for fifty years, and you see the results.

Palestinians will never accept occupation. Do you know a people ready to live without citizenship? Every Russian dissident has Russian citizenship. Every African freedom fighter has a citizenship; Nelson Mandela had a citizenship.

When the International Court of Justice speaks of a possible genocide in Gaza, the Israeli response consists of refuting this possibility due to the Shoah. What do you say to that?

Does this convince you? No. That doesn’t convince me either. The victims of the greatest genocide in history should be even more sensitive when it comes to the genocide of other peoples. The Israelis do the opposite.

They believe that after the Holocaust, we have the right to do what we want. That no one has to tell us what is allowed and what is not, what is moral and what is not.