Mona Chollet tackles the guilt that crushes women at work… and in life

After the canons of beauty, witches or even love, guilt. This is the new theme that essayist Mona Chollet, who has become a feminist icon through her successful books, has launched into. In Resisting guilt (1), it confronts the “inner tyrant” who blames each of us, for everything, reproaching us for being too much this, not enough that, and vice versa; and multiplies what the author describes as “impediments to existing”.

Exacerbated guilt among women, and perhaps even more so in the world of work, a past master in the art of multiplying contradictory injunctions, therefore impossible to satisfy. At the same time required to have a career and to be good mothers, to respond to the imperative of productivity without forgetting to take care of themselves, or even to assert themselves but not too much, women sometimes seem on the verge of the implosion. Surveys and studies confirm it: they are more prone to anxiety or depression than their male colleagues. Mona Chollet herself experienced this guilt that grips, from morning to evening. Not when she was an employee at Diplomatic world… but when she left it to devote herself to writing.

Madame Figaro. – What happened after you resigned?
Mona Chollet. – I think that, after fifteen years of employment, I had forgotten autonomy. I had gotten used to being told every morning where to go, what to do and until what time. Having to organize your days yourself again causes great distress. At first, I forced myself to work 8 hours a day and on weekends. I felt obliged to discipline myself not to let myself go, at the risk of no longer producing anything with my life. I measured my luck, after having dreamed of it for so long, of doing nothing but writing books. I told myself that this life deserved me to work constantly. I have always been outraged by bosses who believe that their employees are lucky and that this justifies them always doing more. It turns out that I displayed the same severity towards myself, unsuitable for writing as for any profession. You never work well when you are so malicious towards yourself.

Were you less hard on yourself before?
Yes, because my work encroached very little on my free time. I’ve always been rather conscientious, but the robotic aspect of employment, this fairly abstract stretch of time during which we are asked to be productive, suited me very well. Just like this reassuring logic of rewarded effort: the question of free time was decided for me and I knew I had the right to enjoy my weekends. Later, I realized that my living environment was not at all made for relaxation – I didn’t even have a sofa in my small apartment!

I displayed the same severity towards myself as the bosses, unsuitable for writing as for any profession.

Mona Chollet

Hence the feeling of being a “crazy robot” after your resignation…
The idea of ​​wasting time immediately arises. A friend who calls me, for example, and with whom I stay on the phone for an hour: this is one of the important pleasures of life, which allows us to cultivate bonds. Well, this caused me a little annoyance, I told myself that evening was going to arrive without me having time to produce anything. I found myself launched on rails, focused on productivity, efficiency. As if you had to buy the right to live, to deserve your existence. I realized that I thought like that even when I was working. I then realized that I would never do enough. Thinking that this voice in my head would ever be satisfied is a mistake.

What does this voice feed on?
No doubt the striking place of sacrifice and dolorism in many companies. I have the impression that we consider a good worker someone who ignores their physical needs, fatigue, hunger or thirst. Killing yourself at work, staying very late, completely ignoring your well-being is a good idea. Even pretending to have no life outside the office, keeping quiet about his hobbies at the risk of being suspected of betrayal or disinterest in his work. Whether you are a man or a woman, proving your devotion through suffering is well-regarded.

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However, you decipher the weight of an original, inexpiable fault of women. What is it about?
From an ancient story! From the myth of Pandora, then with Adam and Eve, the idea of ​​an original golden age emerges where everything was going well until all the evils of the Earth fell on humanity because of ‘a woman who is too curious. It’s a little heavy to carry, as an inheritance! Even if they have always worked, it has only been a few decades since women joined all sectors of activity en masse. They entered areas populated by men and reserved for them alone, environments built on very virile cultures, without women, even against them. As a woman, we don’t have our place, we don’t completely fit into the frame. And we are made to understand it, in a diffuse and involuntary way, or more directly, until we integrate it. The most complicated thing is that, for women, the right attitude does not exist.

That’s to say ?
If we are very humble and apologize too much, we annoy; if, on the contrary, we demonstrate authority, we appear curt or brittle, we see ourselves stigmatized and described as a tyrant – where a man would arouse a mixture of respect, admiration and fear. One day I was supposed to interview the director Ariane Mnouchkine. I was warned that she was “tyrannical” with her actors. When Isabelle Huppert chaired the jury of the Cannes Film Festival, she was also criticized for being too bossy. But once again there is no good attitude, because the problem comes from the atmosphere that reigns in our professional circles.

Wanting to preserve a dimension of oneself unrelated to the couple and motherhood proves very difficult

What about the balance between work and personal life?
Here again, if you work like a man, even if it means neglecting your children, you will be considered an unworthy mother, whereas this seems banal on the part of a father. Conversely, arrive later because your child is sick and you will annoy everyone, who will judge you to be too worried, too devoted. Having become mothers, women seem reduced to the role of caregivers, deprived of the right to exist as individuals. In his books, Titiou Lecoq clearly demonstrates that, within couples with children, women had less free time than men, and often used it to go to the hairdresser or have their hair removed. Wanting to preserve a dimension of oneself uncorrelated with the couple and motherhood, and freeing up pure leisure time, essential for thinking, reading, exchanging with friends, proves very difficult. But, without this space, we run the risk of being chained to various injunctions without being able to get rid of them.

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You also demonstrate that this does not only harm women…
That would be enough to denounce him, but no, in fact. Making women believe that a good mother sticks to her children as much as possible is a mistake. First, a child may want to be left alone and allowed to learn independence. Then, it’s fantastic to see your mother living several facets of her identity and having a blast. This nourishes the bond with the child, gives him a fairer, more diverse idea of ​​what a woman is. It is always said that women without children end up bitter or frustrated. I believe that we rather risk being so when we sacrifice, constrained and forced, all the other aspects of ourselves for the benefit of this sole role of provider of care.

What would make women’s lives and work easier?
The answer is not in their hands, it is a question of social organization. There is, of course, the distribution of domestic and educational tasks, which always fall to them, despite the good wishes of the spouses. It all resists and doesn’t move much. The world of work should undoubtedly stop stigmatizing fathers who wish to take time off to look after their child. A friend who lives in Norway got six months for each of his three children! This requires public policies and a review of our relationship to work. Women lack personal time because men are conditioned to devote themselves completely to their jobs, work overtime and presenteeism.

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Have you managed to silence your inner tyrant yourself?
Spotting the mechanism and identifying it already allows us to mitigate it. When I blame myself for something, I imagine myself having made the opposite choice. And I realize that I would have been self-criticizing here too. That settles the question! Furthermore, understanding has always helped and calmed me. Writing a book is a way of going through a problem to see it more clearly. But that doesn’t solve everything because the society around me has not changed and we remain the product of our education, of our conditioning. All this is long-term work.

(1) Resisting guilt – On some obstacles to existingby Mona Chollet, editions La Découverte, 272 pages, €20. Available on placedeslibraires.fr.