Two former French Prime Ministers had the opportunity to compare their points of view on the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza, sparking tensions specific to a particularly sensitive subject.
Saturday evening, on the set of “Quelle Epoque”, Dominique De Villepin, Prime Minister of Jacques Chirac from 2005 to 2007, was invited to talk about a platform that he signed to request a ceasefire in Gaza.
Also present on the set at that time was Élisabeth Borne, former Prime Minister of Emmanuel Macron, who does not share the vision of her predecessor, who recently became an ardent critic of the way in which Israel is waging the war in Gaza.
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Dominique De Villepin began by speaking of a “deafening silence” of an “invisibility of what is happening in Gaza” because “journalists are targeted and murdered”.
“The particularity of Gaza is that it is besieged. And we must, at some point, force the doors,” he said, calling for stronger action from French diplomacy to oppose the war in Gaza.
On the subject of the arrest warrants issued by the International Criminal Court against Netanyahu and his former defense minister Yoav Gallant, De Villepin believes “that we cannot today shirk our responsibility when we are Prime Minister of a democracy like Israel »
“When we use 500 kg, 1,000 kg bombs on homes, on camps, we imagine that we will find bodies in pieces, in which there will perhaps be half a terrorist , but there will be many children and many women.”
Former Prime Minister Dominique De Villepin (right), on the set of “Quelle Epoch”, November 23, 2024. (YouTube screen capture / Quelle Epoch – France Télévisions)
The former Prime Minister also deplores the reduction in humanitarian aid entering Gaza, which he nevertheless recognizes is sometimes pillaged by Hamas.
“Yes, Hamas still exists. But does Hamas still have the capacity to undermine Israel’s security? “, he said. “We must not be satisfied with fine words […]to vote on resolutions at the UN.”
He also declared: “I say to Emmanuel Macron: recognize the Palestinian state with the European Union.”
“Does Israel respect international law? No. Does Benjamin Netanyahu respect international humanitarian law? No. “, said the former Prime Minister before adding: “Israel must understand that justice must apply and that the Palestinians must therefore be offered a perspective, otherwise this conflict will become more and more a religious conflict, […] a conflict between two worlds.
Élisabeth Borne, for her part, wanted to recall “the terrorist and barbaric Hamas attack of October 7”. It is this attack that is at the origin of the ongoing war in Gaza, since after 1,200 people were killed and 251 hostages were taken by Palestinian terrorists in southern Israel, the Jewish state launched an offensive against Hamas in Gaza.
“We are on a subject which creates fractures in our country, so it is important to acknowledge the fact that there is a democratic State which has been attacked, and that there is also an appalling humanitarian tragedy in the Gaza Strip.
“The position [française] is to ask for a cease-fire, but from there to say that there is no more problem, that Hamas is no longer a threat…”, estimated Ms. Borne before being interrupted by Dominique De Villepin who said: “It’s not me who says that […] most military and intelligence leaders [israéliens] are not on the line of Benjamin Netanyahu.
Former Prime Minister Élisabeth Borne on the set of “Quelle Epoch”, November 23, 2024. (YouTube screen capture / Quelle Epoch – France Télévisions)
“Hamas has set a trap for Israel and the international community. “It’s a great trap because it led to the escalation we’re seeing,” he continued. “The war against terrorism does not resolve the problems of insecurity and does not lead to peace.”
“I understand that Israel guarantees its security, it is its most absolute right,” he insisted, insisting however on the fact that “the Palestinians are not Hamas, Hamas terrorism is not Hamas. “is not a Palestinian terrorist.”
Élisabeth Borne accused De Villepin of falling into “politician politics”. “I say that France did not assert very strongly, from the start, that Israel has the right to defend itself in compliance with international law…” she began to explain before being a new time interrupted by De Villepin who said “Stop there. Does he do it in compliance with international law? “.
The tone then rose a notch between the two political leaders, Ms. Borne challenging De Villepin by asking him “what is your magic solution?” “.
“I do not accept the massacres in the Gaza Strip, and after that? “, she said. “Let us propose a new resolution [pour demander un cessez-le-feu au Conseil de sécurité de l’ONU] », replied Dominique De Villepin.
Also present on the set, the Jewish director Michel Hazanavicius reacted to De Villepin’s comments by declaring: “I am very surprised when I hear you say ‘We know what to do, it’s very simple’. I’m very wary of people who ‘have the solution’, which you seem to have.
dire ».
Michel Hazanavicius, on the set of the show “Quelle époque”, broadcast on France 2, November 23, 2024. (YouTube screen capture / Quelle époque – France Télévisions)
“In France, when you say ‘suspicions of genocide’, there is still the word ‘genocide’ in it,” he said, to pick up on the words of the former Prime Minister who echoed the complaint filed by South Africa against Israel at the International Court of Justice.
“This word is not innocent today […] Despite everything, it implies an equal sign between people who have been programmatically exterminated and people who are experiencing another situation, which is just as emotionally strong, but which is not the same thing. »
“What is true is that the question of destroying a Palestinian group for what it is […]that’s the daily reality of Gaza,” De Villepin replied. “I do not claim to have the solution, I say that we have tools and diplomacy is about being able to mobilize on each subject […] to provide answers.”
