Autumn Tour – “I’m involved with the All Blacks, informally”: Vern Cotter opens up about France – New Zealand

Have you come down from your cloud, five months after the Blues’ final victory in Super Rugby?

It’s such a special journey… I returned to New Zealand after my coaching experience with Fiji and I was lucky enough that the Blues offered me a job. I hadn’t coached since 2006 in New Zealand and they had already contacted me in 2011. I was born in Auckland, so the planets were aligned this time. It gives me a lot of pleasure to train New Zealanders, it’s much more natural for me. The explanations are easier than in France, Scotland or Fiji. You just need to look at certain players to bring everyone up to speed. When I arrived, in the fall of 2023, I found that the Blues had a very competitive team but they had not won since 2003. I wanted to rely on this vengeful spirit, with a good staff but everyone told me that the players were high rollers when in fact, they are very simple: they play for the jersey! We just had to find a way to play rugby with these profiles. We got out of New Zealand standards, we played a bit like the French and the Irish and little by little, we found our way with a little luck. The close matches changed for us. We wanted to win the title in November and I took great pleasure in this final victory… They hadn’t experienced that for 21 years! There is a new craze today in the region.

We feel very proud of you to have achieved this accomplishment…

Blues supporters have not experienced this for 21 years, I repeat! There is a certain satisfaction, especially for the players. Leaders emerged, they took responsibility and they decided that we were going to win. And everyone tells me today that we are going to do the double… (laughs). I watched the NRL final (Editor’s note: Australian Rugby League Championship) and I am looking for lessons through the domination of the Penrith Panthers. We must quickly leave and rebuild so as not to be disappointed.

Will you also draw inspiration from the season following Brennus’ first shield in Clermont, in 2010, or has rugby changed too much?

Rugby has not changed. You have to respect the basics and not get lost. We must not forget the foundations that made it possible to win. It’s concrete, concrete, like when you build a house. First, players must be motivated and form an identity. In 2010, with Clermont, we had an identity. In 2011 it was acceptable to lose in the Top 14 semi-finals with players at the end of their careers, but it wasn’t enough. We wanted to be European champions while respecting the Top 14, because we were in the final phase every year.

In every final I played, I knew why we lost. Many are my responsibility

You lost five finals in your coaching career, were you afraid of seeing certain ghosts return?

That’s a good question… I’ve made ten finals and won five of them, between the Crusaders, Clermont, Montpellier and the Blues. Everyone stays focused on the result, but the metrics also show a share of success: even if we don’t win a final, there are processes that prove that we become better from year to year. This is the most important. In every final I played, I knew why we lost. Many are my responsibility. In 2009, against Perpignan, for example, I told the players not to respond to the aggressiveness of the Catalans, and it was a mistake because we were dominated in the fight. The following year, I told them: “we don’t care what the referee says, we have to go!”. And I did well… (laughs)

Is there less pressure for results in Super Rugby than in Top 14?

The pressure is different, but it’s still there. It’s an international competition, so there’s tension when you travel to Australia or Fiji. This year, there will be even more density because of the disappearance of the Melbourne Rebels. The Australian teams will logically strengthen. But the pressure is positive whereas in France, it is more complex.

That’s to say ?

The promotion-relegation system and compliance with the Jiff quota are two factors that put more pressure on the clubs. But the French system works well!

In the middle of autumn, without competition, how do you pace your days?

I watched the New Zealand provincial championship, I also spoke to schools in Auckland to talk about my coaching experience. We are connected to our territory. It’s a way of living. Otherwise, I spent a little time on the farm; This is where I recharge my batteries, with my country clothes.

During the 2023 World Cup, you were a consultant for Romania. What did you learn from this experience?

It was huge. When I finished with Fiji, World Rugby asked me to help out in Romania and I really liked it. They are a bit like the French, in certain aspects. There is this somewhat Latin side to their mentality. Rugby is very important to them. When they contacted me, they almost only had amateurs and frankly, coaching without the pressure of results was a great experience. I had a blast. We were lucky to have Ireland and South Africa in our group. Lucky, because we were able to learn from their precision and power. It was very inspiring. It gave me a lot of ideas before coming back with the Blues.

Do you have a nice story to tell?

With the whole team, we visited the Petrus and Cheval Blanc castles in Bordeaux, it was huge! We were really good (laughs).

Weren’t you disappointed not to succeed Ian Foster at the helm of New Zealand following the World Cup?

No, I’m happy to be with the Blues, they gave me a very good opportunity. But if I can give some advice to other coaches, that will be good. Now that I’m in New Zealand, I’m a bit involved with the All Blacks, informally. I don’t want to be New Zealand coach, I just want the Blacks to play well.

You also returned to France as part of the meeting between Georgia and the All Blacks XV in Montpellier. For what reason?

I wanted to see some of my players and some friends again, but also attend Top 14 matches, starting on November 23. I want to feel how the French championship has evolved and in what direction, since my departure from Montpellier in 2020. French rugby has had a huge generation for several years and I want to see if it is tenable. But the dynamic is positive!

Do you miss France?

Yes. I have calls every week and I only have twenty bottles of good wine left, so I have to bring some back! (laughs) I spent twenty years in France, we often talk about it as a family, we all have French nationality in fact. When I retire, the ideal will be to spend six months in France and six months in New Zealand.

I was in serious discussions with Perpignan, with Racing 92 as well but it was more discreet

Do you continue to watch the Top 14?

Of course. The meeting between Toulouse and Bordeaux-Bègles had a big impact on me, for example. I hope that this dynamic will continue to be transferred to the XV of France. I also look at Clermont, who have struggled to get back to the top of the table in recent seasons. But they are rebelling!

Do you follow Clermont and Montpellier with particular attention?

I have friends who call me regularly from Clermont. Aurélien Rougerie is part of the staff, Brock James coaches at Bay of Plenty… Now that I’m old, it’s interesting to see the players I coached take this position. Maybe they will understand why I was getting annoyed in training… Today, ASM must find a good way to bounce back. It’s going to be fascinating to see how they do it. They need to find leaders and start uniting again around an identity. There is a great culture at ASM. In Montpellier I feel like I haven’t finished the work I started by not winning the Brennus shield.

Which teams are you most excited about?

Yannick Bru is doing an excellent job in Bordeaux. He is a very good coach. When I saw the power of their impacts against Toulouse… (he breathes) They raised the bar against the opponent who had soundly beaten them in the final, it was strong. The season is long but they have made some interesting first adjustments. Toulon is also one to watch, I will watch how La Rochelle will find resources to win the Top 14… Honestly, this championship is so exciting. We are of course looking at what Toulouse and UBB are doing, to get inspired and have new ideas in our system in Auckland.

Before the 2023-2024 season, is it true that you were close to signing for Perpignan?

I had conversations with President François Rivière. I respect Usap enormously because, with Clermont, we won and lost finals against them. I was in serious discussions with Perpignan, also with Racing 92 but it was more discreet. Then, Franck Azéma became available for Usap and the choice of Franck was logical. He was coming home and so was I, signing in Auckland. It was a good time.

Would you like to come back and coach a French club?

I don’t know. I love life in France, I appreciate this country and I will return there. But I have a lot of work in Auckland, I’m more invested than ever. I think I would rather be in an advisory role for a young coach or a company in the future. A sort of veteran after all.

Rumors concerning discussions between Harry Plummer, your opener, and Clermont have been circulating for several weeks. What do you have to say about this?

Harry has been huge this season! There is a crazy complicity between us. We can count on him, he has a very good kicking game and he is strong too. We’ve had quite a few players contacted, that’s the game, but that’s normal. Harry still has one year of contract with us, but I hope to keep him for two or even three years. Afterwards, there is an economic reality of rugby to take into account…

Anything to add?

We talked a lot about titles and finals… When I look at my time in France, between Clermont and Montpellier, we always played the final phase with seven finals played in ten seasons. I’ve only won two, if you count the European Challenge in 2007, but that’s not bad for a foreign coach, right?