Originally specializing in the sale, storage and distribution of gas, the French company Engie is a global energy player and has specialized in renewable energies in recent years. Catherine MacGregor, its general director, is the “eco guest” of franceinfo.
franceinfo: Do you fear Donald Trump’s return to power in the United States, knowing that he is a proven climate skeptic?
Catherine MacGregor : Beyond the announcement effects, what we must look at is the reality on the ground and on the market. Today, in the United States, there is a very strong demand for more electricity. Because there is economic growth, with the development of data centers etc. And today, renewable energies are the best solutions to meet this rapid need for electricity. Because they can be developed and put into service very quickly, more quickly than other means of production.
“We can count on the pragmatism of the Americans, who have a rapid need for electricity, to maintain this desire to develop these renewable projects.”
Catherine MacGregor, general director of Engieat franceinfo
And therefore to maintain the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act, which includes billions of dollars in public subsidies for green energy. Moreover, Engie currently has projects in solar and wind energy in the United States.
And in batteries too. But we were developing renewable energies under the Trump administration when he was president for the first time. Even before the IRA, we were already developing these projects. We’ll see what happens. Me, as a citizen, if the United States were to leave the Paris agreement, I could only regret it, because given the weight of the United States, it would be bad news.
You have three projects in offshore wind power. Donald Trump said “wind turbines kill birds and whales.” What does this concretely imply for Engie?
There have actually been quite strong expressions from candidate Trump on offshore wind power. So we will see if he makes any decisions and, in which case, we will have to stop the development of these projects. But we have plenty of other projects, particularly in France.
Will you stop them?
If he takes radical decisions, we will of course have to stop these developments. But once again, on a group scale, we have a portfolio of projects that is sufficiently diversified to carry out other projects at sea, particularly in France, where we are of course very active.
At the same time, Donald Trump has planned to resume drilling to exploit shale gas, which means more gas on the market. Does this mean gas prices will fall?
We must differentiate between what will happen on the domestic market and decisions on exports. When you talk about the market, what concerns us Europeans is liquefied natural gas exported from the United States. So the question is: will there be more exports or not? This always brings us back to the question of Europe’s dependence and its energy sovereignty. Russian gas has been replaced by a lot of liquefied natural gas. That’s good, but these are new dependencies. And so today, my message is: let’s accelerate the energy transition because the energy transition means more means of production on our territories, it strengthens our sovereignty.
But if Trump allows this gas to be exported to France, could that be good for the price of gas, as well as for Engie, since you have LNG ports?
Indeed, we have three LNG terminals which play a very important role. And gas will be part of the energy mix for a while to come. But we will reduce this gas consumption in the years to come. This is the key to a successful energy transition.
“For the transition, we will mainly use other molecules, green molecules like biomethane, which is the same molecule as natural gas but produced locally.”
Catherine MacGregor, general director of Engieat franceinfo
So there you have a virtuous substitution with zero CO2 emitted.
OWhere are we on the production of this gas? Are we late in Europe? I saw that you launched a call to Europe for more action in the face of the risks that persist regarding the decarbonization trajectory in Europe.
More generally, on the decarbonization trajectory, we actually have a crossing point which is important at 2030. We have committed in Europe to reducing our emissions by 55% by 2030 and according to our projections, we are rather on track.
Are we producing enough carbon-free energy?
So be careful, there are a lot of levers, but electrification is in particular a very important lever. And a little later, we will use the substitution of natural gas with these carbon-free molecules. So today, we are on the right track thanks to electricity, since we have electrified uses and massively developed renewable energies. We must continue and accelerate to be able to pass this point in 2030 at -55%. On the other hand, where there is still a lot of work to do, it is on the second part 2030-2050. There, we must tackle the entire energy system, continue to electrify and then attack what we call the molecule. So today rather this natural gas. But everything that manufacturers and heavy means of transport use today, which are big emitters and which we are also going to decarbonize. There, we still have a lot of work to do.
Is there not a lack of political impetus for this transformation to be real? A few months ago, before the European elections, you were worried about the arrival of climate skeptics in power in Europe. Today, has this risk been lifted?
I am indeed quite reassured by the fact that the European Commission will rather stay the course in terms of its energy transition ambition. And that, I think, is very good. Afterwards, we perhaps need a call to properly integrate competitiveness and sovereignty. This is very important. We cannot make the energy transition at the expense of industry. We must do it with industry and, to do this, help our industrialists, particularly if they can electrify.
An impulse with aid?
An impetus for them to electrify. And if they cannot electrify, we must on the contrary provide them with this decarbonized molecule, with some aid at the start, to help the industry decarbonize. And there, we will truly have the most virtuous energy transition possible.
How do we help manufacturers to decarbonize?
So we can have aid for demand so that they can get involved and have aid to pay less for energy that is greener.
But we have seen that what is missing today is public money. The Draghi report said that 800 billion euros per year were needed to help European industry in particular to decarbonize. There is a shortage of this public money in France and Europe.
The cost of the transition is real. It is estimated at approximately between 1.5 and 2% points of GDP.
“The cost of energy transition must be compared with the costs of importing fossil fuels, this dependence and, above all, the cost of inaction.”
Catherine MacGregor, general director of Engieat franceinfo
The cost of inaction is never in the equations. So we talk a lot about economic debt. We also need to talk about climate debt. When you look at the events in Spain, there are human lives, monstrous tragedies, and then, for the repair costs, we are talking about 11 billion, 20 billion, the figures become dizzying.
Companies were asked to contribute to the collective effort, particularly in France, with a surcharge for large companies. How much will you pay at Engie?
We will participate in the national effort through this surcharge, if the budget is voted in this direction. There is indeed a system which will require us to impose a surcharge on corporate tax, which is a relatively simple, fairly predictable tax, which we manage to quantify in advance, which will be limited in time, if we have understood correctly .
The boss of Carrefour, Alexandre Bompard, says it is confiscatory.
I will say a little differently, to the extent that it meets the conditions that I have just cited. And I think that today, Engie is ready to take its responsibilities. We need to have healthy public finances and therefore, if we have to make a move in this direction, we prefer a system like this, rather than very complicated systems which try to target this sector or even this type of sector. assets, as has been discussed in the public debate so far. We prefer simplicity and we think that, like any investor, we need stability and clarity in the investment framework.
