Large interview with Giuliano Da Empoli | The predators are among us

He is dark and disturbing, the world portrayed by Giuliano da Empoli, the author of Mage you Kremlinin his brand new book. But Predators Also contains keys to understand it, this world, and therefore to resist ambient chaos, explains our columnist.

Posted at 6:00 a.m.

“The idea of ​​writing on the apocalypse is to prevent it from happening in reality. »»

There was a before and one after the re -election of Donald Trump, says Giuliano Da Empoli.

The return to the White House of the populist politician represents a “rocking point”, more than his victory in 2016, thinks this Italian and Swiss political advisor, who has become a real star since he published Laugh stomach you kremlin Three years ago.

“For those who had been able to feed the illusion that the victory of Trump of 2016 was only a journey accident as had been the victory of Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, Brexit in Great Britain or other episodes of this type, his re-election puts an end to this illusion,” he notes.

It therefore makes it possible to note, with dread, “that there are elements of the functioning of our political systems which have changed and which have changed in what I call the hegemony of chaos”, adds the expert.

In his new book, Predatorshe also presents another reason which makes this election a turning point.

“It makes visible for the first time explicitly, through the funny couple Donald Trump-Elon Musk, the rise in power and the real political role of tech,” said the one who had started to decipher this phenomenon in another captivating essay, Chaos engineerspublished in 2019.

Over the books and articles he writes, Giuliano Da Empoli deploys a skillful mixture of political analysis and literary style. The formula is as enlightening as it is useful when it is urgent to look at these forces which threaten our liberal democracies if we want to be able to counter them.

Since Donald Trump’s return to power, therefore, the masks have fallen. We understood that “the lords of digital war”, to use the expression of Giuliano Da Empoli, not only seek to accumulate wealth. They want to impose their views on how our societies must be managed.

And this new elite now feels powerful enough to do so.

The most blatant example is of course Elon Musk. With its department of government efficiency (Department of Government Efficiency, Doge), it is an essential figure in the pack of predators who have taken control of the American capital.

But let’s not mistake, warns the essayist.

The owner of X is only the most visible of these new lords, for whom the rules and principles of our liberal democracies represent obstacles more than ways of preserving the common good.

And if digital giants have many more hooked atoms with politicians like Donald Trump, who also want to burn the rules of the game, the essayist recalls that their current power is also a legacy of the Democratic Party in the United States.

Over the decades, the Democratic presidents have always refused to supervise them. Starting with the Bill Clinton-Al Gore tandem, who decided to “give no responsibility to the platforms in relation to the content they convey”.

Barack Obama literally took advantage of the teachings of digital giants. During his re-election campaign, in 2012, we even saw one of Google’s officials, Eric Schmidt, come and lend him a hand.

The Democratic candidate was able to benefit from “the largest electoral database that the world has ever known”. And engineers loaned in particular by Google, Facebook and Twitter (before its purchase by Elon Musk, of course) contributed.

Except that at the time, “tech remained in its place, it did not claim to impose a political program,” said Giuliano Da Empoli.

This is no longer the case today.

We did not get out of the hostel, you say.

This is all the more true due to developments in artificial intelligence (AI). This, recalls the author, transforms the data into power “in the most total opacity, under the control of a handful of entrepreneurs and scientists who ride the tiger hoping not to be devoured”.

I also approached this question with him, because in his new essay, he evokes the Montreal researcher Yoshua Bengio, whom he met in September 2024. I felt that he wrote about him with a touch of admiration.

“Yes, I have a lot of admiration for him,” he replied. I confirm it very frankly. I have the impression that he has the attitude, honesty and intellectual independence of the researcher. And that it is animated by doubt in a land on which everyone seeks to assist you their certainties in one direction or the other. »»

What I also mentioned with the writer, of course, are the threats of Donald Trump with regard to Canada, while trying to know how he thinks that our liberal democracies can face such predators and resist the shift to chaos.

“I think we were all stunned by the comments and by Trump’s actions compared to Canada,” he said. Europe is a little more distant. But extraordinarily violent remarks, especially against European institutions and their rules, are also almost every day formulated by Trump or by tech people. »»

Now, like criminals that leave clues that allow them to be found, predators help us understand how to stand up to them if we observe what they denounce, think Giuliano Da Empoli.

“I’m talking about the European point of view,” he said. So, I say that it is mainly necessary to Take European institutions and regulations as an obstacle to hindering the designs of predators. But I think the same principle applies to Canada and other parts of the world. »»

Canada which, I noticed, seems to be relatively under the shelter of the rise of national-populism.

“There is still a form of civility of public discourse which has very deep roots, in the case of Canada and many European countries, and which makes some systems resist better and more than others in this process,” he said. And, therefore, which are at a less advanced stage. »»

In his new book, Giuliano Da Empoli also recalls that the Apocalypse clock (which is adjusted each year according to the extent of the risks that humanity faces) is now in midnight 90 seconds.

A sad record. This is indeed the closest time to the end of the world since this clock was created in 1947.

In an interview, however, the writer would like to specify that he does not have fun looking into the end of the world. Rather, he seeks to do useful work.

I listen to Giuliano Da Empoli Explain that, at the very end of the interview, and comes back in mind one of the most famous quotes from another European writer.

“Each generation believes itself to be doomed to redo the world. Mine however knows that it will not do it again. But his task may be larger. It consists in preventing the world from being dismissed, “said Albert Camus in 1957.

Predators confirms that this challenge is again on the agenda.

Predators

Giuliano da Empoli

Gallimard

151 pages