The shock against Leinster, the current dynamics of Stade Rochelais, its contrasting year 2024, its level of performance or even its recent preparation efforts: the captain and number 8 of Stade Rochelais talks about all the issues of his current affairs. With the lucidity and determination of a competitor determined to return to the top.
How is the Stade Rochelais captain approaching the clash against Leinster?
These are the matches we prefer to play, you know that. Plus, this one comes after the quarter-final elimination in Dublin last season. This time, we are lucky to receive. I want to say thank you to EPCR for giving us the opportunity to catch up.
You appeared particularly dejected after the defeat in Dublin in the spring. Had this elimination left any traces?
It left its mark on me at the time, yes, but it didn't leave any traces in the end. Because we simply weren't ready to take on this challenge at that moment. We clearly weren't. This meeting put our feet back on the ground. In a way, it almost did us good.
Looking back on this quarter-final a few weeks later, you said that the team had lied to itself in the pre-match. Do you think you're right this time?
Looking at our last matches, no, I can't say that we are right. But I think the team is heading in the right direction. I am convinced that all that is needed is a little confidence for automatisms to return and for our intentions and all our opportunities to be rewarded.
What can you tell us about the Leinster version 2024-2025?
This team has kept its Irish side of wanting to hold the ball a lot but, since the arrival of Nienaber, their defense has become more aggressive. It makes for a pretty dangerous mix. It's up to us to seize the opportunities we create and not give them anything. You will have to be very precise, very clean and very efficient.
What makes these meetings against Leinster so special?
In the world, there is Toulouse then Leinster. We are going to play one of the two best teams in the world, at home, in front of our crowd which, I hope, will be on fire. When you're a competitor, when you love rugby, playing on Sunday on France Télévisions against such an opponent is just perfect.
You just said: “In the world, there is Toulouse then Leinster. » Two years ago, you had the plan to settle down alongside them, at the very top…
Yes but, in the year 2024, we cannot estimate that we are part of the two best teams in the world. You must not lie to yourself. What is also clear is that we have the ambition to be part of it again. For that, you have to prove, you need actions. And it starts this weekend by showing our best face. It is a challenge for each of us and for the collective.
Ronan O'Gara insisted last Saturday, after the very difficult victory against Toulouse, on the need to change something to take the team to a new level. So how is this week different?
In my eyes, the first thing to do is to convey good energy. Behaviors during the week determine attitudes at the weekend. This week, I see a lot of effort and I find that there is a good dynamic. Our mission will be to make all of this happen on the pitch on Sunday.
Speaking of energy, we personally find you more comfortable, more energetic on the pitch over the past month…
I feel very good physically, yes. I have worked a lot, a lot with the physical “preparations” for a month. And I feel like it’s paying off. It puts me back in a good dynamic, it makes me want to work even harder to progress.
Stephan du Toit, responsible for the club's physical preparation, sets your approach up as an example to follow: he highlights your diligence, your overtime on rest days… What encouraged you to redouble your efforts?
When you're feeling a bit peckish, you can find all kinds of excuses, blame the coaches or whatever. The observation was simple in my eyes: the only lever I had to influence the course of things was work. I had to work more. And then see what happens.
So what happens?
I've lost weight already. Two kilos. It might not seem like much but it helps me feel good. Generally speaking, I found my standards and better sensations. Confidence, too, returns. Having two or three good performances in a row was good for my head.
And that allowed you to better finish a year 2024 that was mixed to say the least: there was the captaincy in Blue but also disappointments with La Rochelle, a less successful November tour on a personal level…
It’s true that a lot has happened. There was more negative than in previous years but that's how we build ourselves, how we strengthen ourselves. I am convinced that this is a year that will make me grow. If I could have titles every year, I would sign, obviously, but that's not the case. When I look back on my career, I should tell myself that this year was useful and that I was able to draw positive results from it.
Since your first steps in the pros, your career seemed like an irresistible rise to power. How did you experience the reversal of the curve, on a mental level?
I didn't ask myself that many questions, you know. I was always aware of my level and what was happening to me. The truth is that I have never been at my best physically over the past year. If I couldn't perform and had no answer or explanation, it would have been more worrying. There, there was no doubt. I kept my feet on the ground and, above all, I never lied to myself. I'm proud of it, in a way. In this situation, we may tend to close ourselves off. That wasn't the case.
You had thought about it carefully, but do you think that your post-World Cup break is to blame for this drop in performance?
It played a role, that’s for sure. Physically, it took me a while to get back into the rhythm. And there was the fact of suddenly releasing all the pressure, everything I had accumulated for years… It also took time to get back to that level.
If I had to do it again…
I don't regret my decision but maybe I would go about it differently. Afterwards, I tell myself that I still haven't hurt myself. This break undoubtedly helped preserve my body. Well, that put me to the test with the public and the media.
Do you find that people's views and opinions have been too harsh about you?
No. We are public figures, exposed people. When things go well, people say good things about us. And we are happy to read these words. When things go less well and what is said is justified, we must accept it in the same way. I have always accepted that. Overall, I find that people have been kind in analyzing my performance. There was no lie, malice or vulgarity about me.
Has the pleasure always been this strong? In a career, both pleasure and motivation can experience declines…
I never lost the fun. It's the most important thing, actually, when you think about it. The day I no longer have it, I will have to ask myself questions. But this is not yet the case. There is a lot of motivation, a lot of desire to perform, to win titles. When I realize that I've been here for seven years already… It went by really quickly. I hope to do seven more years. And in seven years, I don't want to have regrets because I missed something, because I didn't give everything.
If we look at your statistics over the season, you remain one of the most complete number 8s in the championship… Even without being in full possession of your means, you keep this trademark, paradoxically…
When I was little, every time I entered the field, my parents asked me to do as much as possible… Even today, that's what I impose on myself. In a match, you have to go all out and give everything for the team, for the jersey. Afterwards, I do it more or less well, depending on my physical form. There are days with it and days without it. But I will never give up, I will never give up.
Among the notable statistics, you seem to have rediscovered the taste for passing after contact. Is this a desire on your part?
After putting the emphasis on defense, I switched back a little to the attack and it's true that I try to play more after me, to play the spaces a little more. It’s a sector that provides additional pleasure. You shouldn't force things but when there are favorable situations, I have to seize the opportunity.
Can we say that you are, like Stade Rochelais, in recovery at the start of 2025?
There's a bit of that. But above all there is (he thinks)…carelessness. I don't know if that's the right word… Let's say that, at the moment, I'm moving forward without worrying about the rest. I don't ask myself any questions: I work hard during the week and try to let go of everything at the weekend. And repeat. I'm having a lot of fun right now, so I tell myself it's working.
Among the first deadlines of the year, there is the list for the Tournament. Considering your absence on the last test of the fall tour, do you approach these moments differently?
Over the last four years, I have always said that there were no players established in the France team. And each time, I awaited the list with great interest and desire. This is still the case. Coming back to the November tour, I tell myself that it can paradoxically do me good. It doesn't reset everything but it can start a new dynamic. It's like a new challenge to take on and it's not a problem for me. I always have high goals, long-term goals. Even though I have time ahead of me to achieve them, I don't want to miss too many opportunities.
Especially since the competition has perhaps never been so strong in the third row…
Yes, there is a lot more depth on the third line as there is at other positions. And we need it, moreover. When we see what happened to poor Charles (Ollivon)… If you go back to the previous term, between the team that played England in 2020 and the team that played the Blacks in the opening match of the World Cup, there were a lot of differences. This depth of staff is essential. Afterwards, in terms of players, we can't know who will be there at the end…
On paper, we are approaching the halfway point of this term: the World Cup in Australia is two years away, already…
It's going really fast. That's why we have to make all the sacrifices possible right now because we can wake up one day and have regrets. You have to give everything, without counting. We will have time to enjoy and spread our toes later.
The 2027 World Cup, are you already thinking about it? Or is that too far given your current state of mind?
Of course I think about it. I get up and work hard every day so I can be part of the group that goes to Australia. Long term, that's my main goal.
