“For Arizona, if you get sick, it’s your fault.”

We see that the PS is quite offensive against Arizona in recent weeks. Did what you read in Bart De Wever’s super note shock you that much?

It’s a catalog of horrors. We took the time to analyze in detail the impacts on the population of this note, which remains to this day the only official negotiating document. We have heard some people say “until there is agreement on everything, there is no agreement on anything”. They minimized the fact that there were already commitments on a whole series of themes. We saw it in the leader of the Engagés. The day Bart De Wever resigned as trainer, Maxime Prévot sent a rave press release, presenting what was on the table as the 8th wonder of the world. As the days passed, we saw that a lot of distance was being taken from what there was already an agreement on.

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Were you surprised by what you read?

Not really. The right will attack its traditional pet peeves: the poor, the precarious and civil servants. More surprising is to see that they also attack workers, with the reintroduction of the waiting day for workers and employees. A little flashback. This aberration of our Belgian legislation provided that when a worker or employee fell ill, he lost a day’s pay. This was removed in 2010 by Elio Di Rupo.

Workers will not benefit from getting sick…

This is a socially unjust measure. People don’t choose to get sick. According to the latest figures from Securex, 7 out of 10 workers were sick at least one day in 2022. This concerns a lot of people. This measure does not take into account the fact that people are more often sick in difficult jobs, as all studies attest. It is also a dangerous measure: it means not learning the lessons of the Covid period where periods of confinement have shown their effectiveness in protecting colleagues or customers. The message Arizona is sending is: if you get sick, it’s your fault. The first day, you will have to pay for it out of your pocket. But also: go to work and take the risk of contaminating your colleagues, your patients, your customers.

Paul Magnette appalled by the Arizona plan: “Night work, on Sundays and public holidays will be generalized without being better paid”

What are the risks of implementing this day?

We encrypted it. A housekeeper in service vouchers, paid 14.15 euros per hour, who falls ill only one day, tomorrow, the Arizona parties plan to withdraw 107.54 euros from her monthly salary. A cashier who has more than 20 years of seniority: she would lose 105.55 euros per month with the reintroduction of a single day of waiting. Some spoke of going up to three days of waiting. There, the amounts would be tripled. For Arizona’s parties, the poor are seen as profiteers and public officials as privileged. The MR prides itself on being the party of work, but it is certainly not the party of workers.

And the Engagés in there?

The Engagés have become a right-wing party even more bourgeois than the MR of the motorhomes.

Don’t you think this logic of using the stick rather than the carrot will bear fruit?

Do you find it normal to steal a day’s pay from a worker who falls ill? Do you find it normal to eliminate the individual right to training when all the studies say that it is one of the major issues for increasing the employment rate? Do you find it normal that someone who works night shift in a logistics center loses money? Do you find it normal for a nurse to lose money? No, I don’t think that’s how we’re going to make these jobs attractive and make people want to go to work.

What other measure horrified you?

The abolition of the individual right to training. With this Vivaldi government, I fought so that workers could have five days of training financed by the employer. The evolution of the job market requires them to have training throughout their career. Statistics show that it is the workers most in need of training who have the least access to training. The proposed measure, which is a requirement of the employers’ bench, is the elimination of this right to training. We have companies who tell us every day that they cannot find enough candidates. The question of training is central if we want to increase the employment rate. It should be a national cause.

Who is the public who will suffer from this?

The oldest, those over 55. And women. Fewer of them are able to benefit from in-company training.

“Arizona”: Bart De Wever asks Europe to be able to submit its budgetary plan for the end of the year instead of September 20

Can politics still do something for Audi Forest?

I hope so. All governments and institutions concerned must do everything possible to try to guarantee an industrial future for the site, its workers and its subcontractors. But the powers are limited. The question is not limited to Belgium. It is a crisis that the European automobile industry is going through linked to a whole series of factors, such as fierce competition from China and the United States. A trade war has begun. On the political side, we have made commitments to guarantee a future with the Volkswagen group and the Audi Forest site. Governments spoke with one voice, both for the outgoing government but also getting the foot in the door for future majorities. We feel that there is a political consensus to continue to fight for that of workers and subcontractors.

You are going to be group leader in the House. In a month or a year?

I will be sooner. If the people of Rochefort trust me to become their mayor again, I have made a commitment to carry out this function. On December 2, if this is the case, I will take the oath as mayor of Rochefort and I will assume my role as leader of the PS group in the Chamber.

Perhaps we will have to find a replacement for you as Minister of the Economy?

These are things that happen. I made a clear commitment to Rochefort. I will do it as I did in 2018: without receiving my salary as mayor and by applying the rule of financial decumulation which applies within the PS. My salary will be donated to associations, if this is the case.

Is alternation for the PS a good thing? Being stuck in opposition, is it time for introspection?

We made the choice to go into opposition to be able to lead this process of reflection and rebuilding the party. I am convinced that our fundamentals are more relevant than ever. We must think about how to be able to convince the population in a political and media environment that has changed. A reflection that we must make after June 9 is that it was difficult to carry out a campaign on substance. We have often been pulled down by some people, and in particular by Georges-Louis Bouchez. For me, politics is about more than a series of personal attacks and barbs. We remain convinced in the PS that we can continue to convince and bring together without denigrating and without pitting parts of the population against each other.

Federal negotiations: annoyed by the attitude of the N-VA, Bouchez and Prévot went to find De Wever

What will be the big fights in parliament soon?

In the coming days, there will be an abortion. We will continue to hit the nail on the head to ensure that we can finally update our legislation and that we can guarantee access to abortion for all women in dignified conditions. We want the length of the abortion period to be extended. We want to completely decriminalize abortion. We simply want to be part of the story. It is incomprehensible that today there are still blockages for religious or philosophical reasons.

The Pope’s words… did you expect it?

They didn’t surprise me. We are with the head of an institution which is the reflection of its past.

As a Robespierrist and anti-monarchist, how did you interpret this welcome given by the King to the Pope which allowed him to make these declarations on a “murderous law”?

The Catholic Church and the Royal Palace did not emerge as winners from this sequence. This demonstrated that both are out of step with a large part of the Belgian population and its aspirations in 2024.

The place of the monarchy in the political system could be reviewed, in your opinion?

This is a debate that would be useful to have. But I am also aware that it is not on the agenda. And it is not my priority, nor that of the Socialist Party.