INTERVIEW. War in Ukraine: support from the local population, disinformation, North Korean soldiers… where is the Ukrainian army in Kursk?

La Dépêche du Midi : You were in Russia, in the Kursk region, three weeks ago. What is the situation for the Ukrainian army facing Russian forces, in this “blind spot” on the front?

Cyrille Amoursky : Ukrainians entered this part of the Kursk region in early August. After having controlled up to 1,000 km² (for comparison Haute-Garonne is 6,300 km², Editor's note) they now control 500 to 600 km², the rest being a gray zone where no one really imposes itself. However, the announced objective of Russian power was to recover the entire region before October 1st. It's the 30th and Russia still hasn't done it. If the Ukrainians have indeed lost ground, they are not about to give up and with my colleagues we have been able to see constant flows of equipment.

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What did you observe on site?

On my way to Soudja, I passed through the small villages surrounding this town and I was able to see buildings destroyed or damaged even though they were almost still intact three weeks after the Ukrainians entered. It is since the Russian response that they have suffered artillery fire and bombardments from the Russian air force. Russian civilians confirm this on the spot. According to them, the Ukrainians have no interest in bombing their own positions since they have already set up an HQ and are stationed nearby. I was also able to hear shots, especially mortars, relatively close when I was in Soudja. My colleagues who had come a few weeks earlier had not heard a single one, because the Ukrainian army was further away. We mainly hear this close combat artillery because for heavy artillery, the Caesar for example, the Ukrainians have a range which allows them to fire from home. In any case, the area has become more dangerous than it was. A few days earlier, another group of journalists had been attacked by Russian drones.

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You are yourself Franco-Russian and you lived in Ukraine. What is the state of mind of the Russians with whom you were able to speak directly?

They are all worried. Some prefer not to speak on camera because they are afraid of the consequences of liberating the region, knowing that it is a question of time. The Ukrainians have announced it themselves, they have no desire to stay, in the long term. Others are very clear that they have always opposed this war and explain that the Ukrainian army allowed them to survive because Russia was constantly bombing their neighborhoods. They were able to obtain a place to take refuge, food, water, medicine, even though the Russian government absolutely never offered a humanitarian corridor to evacuate them. Worse, they are even considered by Russian propaganda as traitors, in particular because the government wishes to forget this humiliating episode for Russia, namely that a foreign army can today continue to control part of Russian territory without Russia can respond with a nuclear threat or with its weapons. Some also say they support the Ukrainian action and want to leave Russia to take refuge in Ukraine or in the European Union. But it is important to keep in mind that we have here testimonies of civilians surrounded by the Ukrainian army. We therefore do not know to what extent they are sincere, perhaps just wanting to obtain the trust of the Ukrainians while they will perhaps change their tune when the Russian army returns.

Russia took 478 km² in October. What does this Kursk zone weigh for kyiv?

The Ukrainians want to use this territory as an asset in a negotiation or as a bargaining chip. They also think that having brought the war to Russian soil can force Westerners to ask themselves the question of the legitimacy and reality of the red lines that they have set for them regarding the weapons supplied, and not to use on Russian territory in particular… but also call on them on the red lines that Vladimir Putin has set, because his threats of disproportionate reprisals in the event of a direct attack on Russia have not taken place.

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What awareness did the Russians we met have of the war, until the arrival of Ukrainian troops?

Apart from one person of Ukrainian origin whose testimony I was able to verify, they had absolutely no idea what was happening before the Ukrainian army showed them images of destroyed Ukrainian cities like Boucha, Irpin, Mariupol and many more. others. Afterwards, we don't know to what extent this is true. Perhaps they also lie because they do not want to appear responsible in front of Western cameras. However, they realize that their TV absolutely does not give a representative account of reality. They didn't know what their own army was capable of. I was able to see the reaction in real time of a couple to the images of Boutcha and Mariupol that they discovered. Their emotion was strong, real, and I consider their testimony to be authentic because they had just come out of their attic after two months of occupation. The woman cried, said that this was absolutely unacceptable, that she could never have imagined that her army, the Russian army, was capable of such horrors.

10,000 North Korean soldiers are said to be on this Kursk salient. What information do you have?

For the moment, we have no testimonies from the Ukrainian military. On the other hand, we have videos in which Russian soldiers criticize the North Koreans for their military capabilities and physical condition. And there is also a racist tone in these stories where they are called “Chinese”, treated “Asians” with a certain contempt and seen as incompetent.