At 57, the man who is performing tonight on the Olympia stage remains active on all fronts. Telecoms, of course, where Free had gained 212,000 mobile subscribers in the first quarter, and 85,000 in fixed lines. But also internationally: after investing in the Swedish operator Tele2, or buying the main Ukrainian access provider, Xavier Niel also tried to take over Millicom, a giant with 45 million subscribers operating mainly in Latin America (his takeover bid was rejected in August). And as if that were not enough for him, he is now multiplying his bets in artificial intelligence. Enough to further establish his status as a boss agitator of ideas, and who became a millionaire at the age of 24.
Capital: Mistral AI, Kyutai, H, Pulsar… Why increase investments in French start-ups specializing in artificial intelligence (AI)?
Xavier Niel: AI will revolutionize our lives for the next fifty years, and certainly beyond. It will be everywhere. However, all AI models today are either American or Chinese. But for the moment we only have access to those imagined across the Atlantic. These models have a human bias, because they were created by people of Anglo-Saxon culture and training. This can influence the responses given by AI, but also the respect for our private lives, our values and our culture… So the objective is to have artificial intelligence based on European models.
How to get there?
We need three things. The first is data. This is not an issue: thanks to the Internet, we have it. The second is talent. In France, we are lucky to have great schools, such as Polytechnique or Paris-Cachan, which produce the best AI researchers in the world. We still have to succeed in keeping them in France. To make them want to stay, we have to give them the means to develop their business here. This is why, with others, I invest in start-ups, up to 20 million euros on major projects. And with the former boss of Google, Eric Schmidt, and the director of the shipping company CMA CGM, Rodolphe Saadé, we launched Kyutai, an independent laboratory with 300 million euros, which aims to produce AI models in a completely open and transparent manner. To do this, we recruited the best of the best. They are a bit like the Avengers of AI! The entire world will be allowed to use these models, but with the bet that they will be used mainly in Europe.
Xavier Niel buys himself a 200 million euro mansion
And the third point essential to the development of AI?
These are the microprocessors needed to train our models that the American company Nvidia sells. We buy thousands of them through our subsidiary Scaleway. We are probably Nvidia’s first private customer in Europe. And the only telecom operator in France that is also involved in AI.
What profitability are you aiming for in this AI activity?
For Kyutai, none. It is a non-profit foundation. For investments in start-ups, it is different. But the goal is first to create an AI ecosystem in France and Europe. And it is going rather well: we are probably the third country in this field, behind the United States and China.
You are also increasing investments in your original sector, telecoms. Could you buy SFR, which is looking to reduce its debt?
I think that the competition authorities, both European and French, would not allow it. The European doctrine is four operators per country in a functional market. Take Italy: we are even five there now! In France, it is four. The doctrine is four. So no, today we cannot buy SFR, even in part. To grow in France, others have the obligation to make acquisitions: this is not our case. We still have 10% organic growth per year.
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How do you maintain your prices in mobile, when your competitors have increased them, in the face of inflation in their costs?
It’s a choice: to increase the number of our subscribers rather than our prices. It’s up to us to compensate for the additional costs. I think that in a period of inflation, it’s a reasonable choice to keep fixed prices. That’s our story: in 2002, we started with a Freebox at 29.99 euros, with no commitment or price increase after one year. Today, we still have a box at 29.99 euros with no commitment or price increase after one year. We don’t change our strategy every two weeks. This allows us to gain market share. As a customer, when you have price increases every six months, there comes a time when you say to yourself: “What’s this story? They sell me at a cheap price the first year, but after that, they spend their time increasing my price. I prefer to go to someone who doesn’t change their prices.”
While you were aiming for the M6 frequency, why didn’t you apply for the renewal of the TNT channels?
Because we thought the die was cast. I was convinced that the regulatory authority, Arcom, would not have the courage to bring in new players. But by saying that they are fearful, I annoyed them! Result: they wanted to prove me wrong (Arcom reallocated to new entrants, at the end of July, the frequencies of the channels C8 – owned by the Vivendi group, shareholder of Prisma Media, the publisher of Capital – and NRJ12, Editor’s note). More seriously, we were asked several times to apply, but I had the impression that they wanted to use us as a sort of alibi to say: “Look, it’s very competitive, there are lots of applications submitted.” Furthermore, I think that you need a large channel, one of the top six channels, to then be able to develop others. The smaller channels are often just complementary channels.
“Le Monde”, “Le Nouvel Obs”, “Nice-Matin”: in the press, do you aim to create a large group?
The idea is to manage to maintain an editorially independent press, by giving it the means. Each of these titles has its editorial line, and they are extremely different. I can hold stakes in titles that are politically very left-wing, even anti-capitalist, and other stakes in newspapers that are more right-wing, but I feel comfortable with that. What I am looking for is to have a diversity of information in my country, and for everyone to be able to express themselves freely and independently. That the journalists make the editorial line, and not the shareholder.
On the Teract side, your activity dedicated to healthy eating, we have the impression that things are moving slowly…
Within Teract, I am associated with nearly 300,000 farmers, this has enormous advantages but also small disadvantages! We founded Teract in the wake of Covid, with the objective of creating food independence, promoting healthy eating and building an entire value chain in this area. We started by buying a network of bakeries. Now it needs to continue to grow, through acquisitions. A bit like Mediawan: thanks to Pierre-Antoine Capton, its director, we have made 80 acquisitions in eight years, to become the world’s number 1 independent scripted production company, such as films and series. Mediawan made 15% of the box office sales for French films last year. And then they released “The Count of Monte Cristo”, an incredible film, produced by Dimitri Rassam.
With a new government expected, are you worried about possible tax increases?
This is France, there are cycles. There was a desire to tax income at 75% (a project of François Hollande rejected, Editor’s note) before we became more reasonable again. That’s how it is, there are ups and downs. You know, I was born in the suburbs of Paris, in Créteil, and I attended public school. I know what I owe to this country, and I am happy to help it. Sometimes, people, very left-wing, tell me: you have the tax for that. I do not contest the tax, I pay my taxes, but I prefer to use my money as I see fit. Like with Station F, the 42 school, or what I do in AI with Kyutai, or in agriculture with Hectar. It’s a way of giving back to my country.
But wouldn’t a tax increase risk slowing down business creation?
It would be better if we avoided breaking the momentum of the last 10 years. We need to push even more people towards entrepreneurship. The more entrepreneurs we have, the more likely we are to be successful. If you take the American ecosystem, the top 50 stocks are technology stocks. If we could have had just 10 of these stocks in Europe, we would not be behind the United States in terms of GDP per capita. We need to create businesses because they are the value of tomorrow. The employers of our children, our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren are being created now.
M6, Casino, you have recently experienced failures on several issues…
I am the most optimistic person on Earth. On the M6 case, I am capable of going there even if I have no chance of winning. I lost, and it does not depress me at all. If we do not try, we have no chance of winning. But only, do not take me for an idiot. I am ready to try, but I am not a masochist. On the Casino case, it was different because one of our associates betrayed us, for money, to join the opposing party (the buyout proposal led by Daniel Kretinsky and Marc Ladreit de Lacharrière, Editor’s note), while pretending to be with us.
Are you targeting the British Attestor fund?
Yes. This fund used information that we provided during our calls to inform the other side, and was paid 30 million euros to switch to the other side. So we took them to court. If you ask me, I think we should ban this rogue fund from operating in Europe. Because what they are doing is a scandal. These are practices that I would call illegal, and morally shameful. This is a way of doing business that should not exist.
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