The Minister of the Economy, Éric Lombard, confirmed, Monday January 6, that the Livret A rate, which is today at 3%, would fall.around 2.5%“in February, a first since 2020.”First of all, it is a decrease which is logical“, estimates Benoît Grisoni, general manager of BoursoBank, (formerly Boursorama Banque), the oldest online bank, which now has more than 7 million customers. And, saccording to him, despite this drop, booklet A is “a product that will remain attractive“.
franceinfo: How do you think the French will react, knowing that Livret A is their preferred investment?
Benoît Grisoni: I think that it is first of all a reduction which is logical. It must be remembered that there was a shield of 3% of Livret A which should have fallen previously, since it is linked to a formula. The remuneration of the booklet has not been reduced for the whole of 2024. This is a fair return of things. That is to say that with the drop in inflation, the drop in short-term rates, it is quite legitimate that in the formula, we fall back on this figure which is 2.5.
Do you think the French were expecting this drop?
Obviously each time, it's difficult to explain. But I think they can understand it with inflation back to 2%, or not very far. Knowing that there is also a tax advantage on this remuneration, it is very important because the rate is closer to 3% if we take it into account. If we compare it to other products, it is a risk-free product and a liquid product. This is why the French love it, because it corresponds to everyone, to all our needs. We always need to have a pocket that allows us to have a small return without risk.
And so how do you think the French will react?
I think that this will not prevent collection at all, since, all things being equal and in relation to other financial products, it obviously remains a product that will remain attractive.
Knowing that the period is marked by uncertainty. No voted budget yet and the threat of budgetary rigor. The new Minister of Public Accounts, Amélie de Montchalin, promised that there would be no tax increase for the middle classes. But all the same, it is often said that the French, who already have the highest savings rate in Europe, fill their nest egg when they are worried. Do you notice it? At the moment, are they consuming less and saving more?
We don't see a drop in consumption. On the other hand, they saved more in 2024 than in 2023 and in a very diversified way. Lots of regulated, secure savings, like A savings accounts. Many more savings accounts and term accounts, since the returns were still attractive, without risk. And they also made quite a lot of funds in euros in life insurance. And more and more, and much more than last year, in 2023, on investment, that is to say stocks, trackers etc., and therefore on all these products. And so, it is of course on this set that they decided to save and, overall, they saved significantly more compared to the year 2023.
So, they don't consume more, we don't see any uncertainties in the savings of the French?
We, in our figures, do not see them. To give you an example, we have 17 bank card transactions per customer, which is exactly the same figure as last year. So they consumed, at least in our area, exactly the same thing as last year.
BoursoBank is a subsidiary of Société Générale, 100% online, no physical branch, no advisor on the line. You have been profitable since last year. What does that mean? Has digital banking become the norm? Do the French no longer need a banking advisor?
No, not necessarily. I think there are really two types of models. There is a model for customers who need to be supported, and for that, network banking with personal advisors remains an important model, it still represents 90% of the banking market today. And then there are also French people who are independent in their management of their money. We respond to this promise. And so in fact, in our model, there are advisors who are still on the phone by exception. We are always here to help. Obviously there always have to be people who can help.
“We fully embrace our model, the counterpart of which is very clear, it is purchasing power. That is to say, we provide a model where you are autonomous as a customer, and the counterpart is “is that you pay less, overall, for bank charges.”
Benoit Grisonion franceinfo
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We have annual bank fees of less than 10 euros per year, when the market is around 220 euros per year in bank fees. This is logical since depending on the models you choose, the costs are not the same and therefore, the prices for customers are not the same. It's up to everyone to decide on that.
Knowing that there are many of your customers, out of the 7 million, for whom it is the main bank, it is not a support bank.
For half of the customers, BoursoBank is a main bank. Knowing that we have recruited more than a million and a half customers per year in 2022, in 2023 and in 2024. So we are in very strong expansion. And why? Because I think that the question of purchasing power, the question of autonomy with regard to one's money are also themes that we ultimately find in the news and in the expectations of the French.
Do you have a clientele that is significantly younger than traditional banks?
Basically, the average age is 35 years old. You should know that of the millions and a half new customers per year, 60% are under 30 years old and almost 50% are even under 25 years old. So we really have a very strong rejuvenation every year. Obviously, the younger the Frenchman is, the more he obviously has limited financial needs. And the more things go, with time, the more obviously, he has needs that become more sophisticated. And this is where it is also important to be an online bank, but not just for current accounts, but to be able to have a wider range of offers.
I saw that you have a lot of services. You are developing new services with a private bank for your wealthiest clients who have assets. It has been said that you have a young clientele, sometimes, who don't have a lot of money, but there are some who have means. What did they do with this money?
I think before they were in private banks or other types of banks. What we want to send them as a message is that just because today we have mainly young customers does not mean that we cannot also address slightly more complicated, slightly more sophisticated needs. It is estimated that 400,000 customers, out of the 7 million, correspond to this type of service offering, which will make it possible to have slightly more complicated products, which can still be subscribed to online, with which there is the same logic of autonomy, plus support, nonetheless, a little more personalized for them, if they decide. And so it's a launch that we did in December and which has just started.
I imagine that the connected, young, urban customer does not need you and that he will go on the internet alone, that he will invest in cryptos? That he will invest abroad?
Yes, it's true. And in fact today, the more information you have, the more tools you have to compare, the more you will choose different services. What we see is that a greater portion of investments go towards American stocks, towards ETFs, what we call trackers. For example Nvidia, which is the 10th most traded stock last year. The first nine are French fortunately, with obviously the classic CAC40 banking stocks.
Does that mean they invest in companies they know?
Why do they choose American markets? First, there was an exceptional relative performance of the American markets last year. So that also partly explains it. These are companies and businesses they know, because they are the ones they use every day. And then, access to these products is also simplified today. You have much more access to information, you participate, and all of us, with a lot of information around Tesla, Nvidia, etc. And so that obviously contributes to this phenomenon.
Do you have the impression today that your clients, when they withdraw money, it is to invest in cryptos?
We don't do it directly. But we can in fact see that, and this was confirmed by figures from the OECD which had also been produced by the AMF (Financial Markets Authority), that roughly 10% of French people use, in proportions probably quite low still in terms of amount, crypto. But it is a phenomenon which is very much here today and which is mainly used by young people. So this is one of the phenomena that we also observe.
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