The two former Prime Ministers argued about France's place on the international scene, but also about the solutions to be found to the various ongoing conflicts.
A casual discussion. Guests of the show “What a time!” broadcast on Saturday November 23 on France 2, two former Prime Ministers, Dominique de Villepin and Élisabeth Borne, displayed their disagreements regarding the current international situation, from the Middle East to the war in Ukraine, and on the place that occupies France on the international scene.
Respect for international law
Initially, the first city deplored a lack of clarity from Paris regarding the conflict in the Middle East, while the Israeli army continues its bombings in Lebanon and the Gaza Strip. “I will not recall Emmanuel Macron's position when he went to the Middle East for the first time indicating that it was necessary to form an anti-terrorist coalition, I do not believe that this was the initiative he was necessary,” he begins.
“The fight that must be waged and which France is not waging is a fight to defend the principles, that international law must be respected in one case as in the other (in the Middle East and in Ukraine, Editor’s note),” he adds.
In response, Élisabeth Borne recalled that shortly after the attacks of October 7 which provoked the response of the Hebrew State on the Gaza Strip, “France affirmed very strongly from the start that Israel has the right to defend in accordance with international law,” she recalls.
What followed was an increase in the tone between the two former tenants of Matignon regarding the posture to currently adopt:
“Is she doing it in compliance with international law?” de Villepin retorts. “The magic solution is not to accept,” he adds. “I do not accept it! The massacres in the Gaza Strip, I do not accept them,” Élisabeth Borne immediately retorts.
“We are not many diplomats here, diplomacy is to try again and try again,” he continues, stressing that it was necessary to present a new resolution for Gaza after the arrest warrants issued by the European Court International against Benjamin Netanyahu and a former minister of his.
Fixing the red lines on Ukraine
Regarding the Ukrainian conflict, Dominique de Villepin's vision remains the same: the voice of France and Europe must be heard in order to thwart American plans.
“Donald Trump arrives with ready-made, unilateral ideas, here again we have two months to move forward on strong positions which will allow us to block American diplomacy which claims to resolve everything very quickly and on its own. Let's work with the Ukrainians, with the “all Europeans to establish a position which will serve as a red line for Trump”, he suggests.
“On Ukraine we had successive sets of sanctions from Europe which remained united to sanction Russia,” defends Élisabeth Borne, herself Prime Minister at the start of the conflict and the establishment of these sanctions.
“You are right, but can we be content with that knowing that these sanctions are being circumvented,” replies the one who emphasizes that a ceasefire in Ukraine could allow kyiv “not to be forced” to capitulate. “We must not force Ukraine to sell off its territorial integrity or its sovereignty,” he concludes.
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