In this interview given to Hespress Fr, the General Treasurer of the Kingdom, Noureddine Bensouda, discusses the issues of public financial governance in the era of crises and uncertainty. Faced with international shocks with multiple repercussions – whether climatic, geopolitical or economic – Bensouda underlines the need to rethink the management of resources and the coordination of actors for more effective management of public finances.
Hespress Fr : “Towards a better restructuring of the public financial governance model in Morocco and France” is the theme chosen for the 16th International Conference on Public Finances. Why this choice?
Noureddine Bensouda : this Conference is the 16th in a series which began several years ago and which deals with subjects on public finances, whether State finances, those of local authorities or social finances in general.
The choice of this theme is timely because, as you know, at the international level, we are experiencing multiple shocks in different areas. Climatic and geopolitical shocks, shocks having an impact on raw materials, and therefore on our public finances, i.e. our balance of payments.
We have tried to see in the face of this situation which is becoming a little more difficult, where there is less predictability, the voices to maintain robust, improved and modernized management to try to deal with the scarcity of resources on the one hand, and the evolution of expenses so as not to put pressure on the budget. This is why all partners and stakeholders must work in perfect convergence and coherence. The goal being to explain that there is room for progress and we felt this on an operational level and we wanted at the same time to raise awareness that partners must make an effort to improve public management in general, whether at state level or at the level of local authorities. All this requires investment in human resources which is fundamental and also in information systems.
Faced with new economic and social challenges, what structural reforms are you considering to strengthen the resilience of the public financial governance model in Morocco and ensure better coordination of the different actors?
In fact, we must return a little to our history and also to our Constitution which, in its preamble, established a very clear vision for Morocco, a modern, democratic, plural country, where there are fundamental principles of transparency. , integrity and accountability. All of this must be implemented. We implement it through of course the organic finance law in the case of public finances and then through annual budgets whether for the State or for local authorities, and all of this must be deployed in a coordinated manner. This is why there are parallel reforms. First there is sectoral expenditure: equipment budget, agricultural budget, health budget, higher education budget, etc., and these are public policies which are implemented through these budgets.
On the other hand, there is work of convergence between the ministerial departments for implementation, because we must not forget that behind these budgets there is a quality public service and there is a question, I would say, orchestration and programming, given that we cannot respond to all social demands and Morocco has chosen to have, in this current period of the economic and social evolution of our country, a social state which involves the provision of services such as the generalization of social protection, supporting populations with housing, providing transport, education, etc. There are therefore priorities which have been determined and then it is a question of sequences. As you know, we cannot answer everything because resources are limited. It is therefore a question of organizing and improving this organization, of ensuring convergence between the actors, but on other sides of trying to mobilize financial resources for the country whether at the State level or at the level of local authorities. You remember, there are significant efforts with tax reforms and that is what you said at the start, these are the reforms.
Tax reform, public procurement reform, which is fundamental for budget execution, etc., these are the reforms that accompany the policies. But the most important thing in everything that is done is that it is visible, concrete, and that the citizen feels that there is an evolution.
It is true that we should still congratulate ourselves on the evolution of Morocco, if you take the last 25 years, the reign of His Majesty Mohammed VI. There have been imaginable advances in terms of infrastructure, investment in culture, the Rabat theater for example, desalination, environmental protection, support for populations, etc. All this gives us perspective and ambition and above all hope in Morocco that we are all building together.
The three-year PF programming is a key step for predictable and coherent budgetary management. What are Morocco’s main priorities in this planning, and how does the TGR intend to respond to the challenges of balancing economic growth and budgetary discipline over this period?
When we take a look at the history of public finances, in other countries and also in ours with especially the reform of the organic finance law of 2015, the spirit of which is to project us into the medium and long term. It is true that the budget is annual, but we can include it in a multi-annual plan, to implement programs (schools, infrastructure, etc.). The idea is how we will roll out all these programs over a multi-year period. The objective is to have this programming which is very detailed and which allows us to make the best use of our resources and this is the spirit of the organic finance law. At the same time, there is the objective of empowering those responsible, the actors (if we use a less scholarly term). If you take the budgets before, they were less visible in terms of the “mission”, the “program”, because when we say an “education program”, it implies that the students will be educated in the best conditions, it has to be palpable. This is a bit of the qualitative leap that was brought about by the organic law of 2015, and you have also noticed that the Minister of Finance and the Minister responsible for the Budget, in the presentation of the draft law of finances of 2025, discussed the improvement of this organic finance law which requires amendments from time to time to adapt to the reality on the ground.
Faced with growing international recommendations on tax transparency and the fight against tax evasion, what specific measures are you considering so that Morocco is better aligned with global standards?
At the universal level, there is a healthy trend towards more transparency in exchanges and generally, today, governments or administrations exchange information to pay attention to what we call “the mobility of tax bases ”.
As we are in an open world, an open economy, there are multinationals, and there is optimization being done on both sides. You can have an activity in one country, have the head office in another and have shareholders in a third country. This exchange of information between administrations makes it possible to capture the base or resources in the country where it occurs. Often there is an imbalance between developing and developed countries. As part of our work with the OECD and at the United Nations level, we are trying to restore this balance so that the countries which are at the origin of the creation of wealth can capture part of this tax base in the countries either consumption or production. And this is the development today in the world and these are the discussions that exist between Europe, the United States and China on these aspects because if we do a lot of tax optimization we risk put the public finances of one country or another in difficulty.
In a context where the integration of artificial intelligence is crucial for effective public governance, what concrete artificial intelligence projects are underway within the TGR?
The most concrete project is firstly the investment in human resources in this area. We have teams working on data science. Regarding artificial intelligence, we have a chatbot that can answer questions. All of this can be put into this overall concept of optimization and scarcity management. Human resources are as rare as financial resources are quite rare. And as the human resource is mobile, the financial resource is also mobile. The idea is therefore to invest in this resource of information systems and our human resources to try to use them as best as possible. Artificial intelligence allows us to make this qualitative leap by exploiting it in aspects that it can support and configuring the management of our human resources for other aspects that have higher added value.
But the most important thing in this area is good management of something that is also rare, namely time. As you know, time cannot be replaced. The idea is therefore to reduce information processing times. This rapid processing is fundamental in the management of public finances.
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