The flight of Bashar al-Assad is a very important change for Syria. What will be the consequences for Belgium?
It is first of all important for Syria, Syrians. We must rejoice with them at the fall of the Assad regime. We are still talking about 53 years of dictatorship. And every day, we discover confirmation of the incredible cruelty of this regime. It is a dictatorship that not only ruled the country with an iron fist, but also regularly killed its own population. There, we are now talking about perhaps 100,000 bodies discovered in a mass grave. We have seen the images of the prisons. This is a regime that has regularly gassed its population and used chemical weapons against its population.
It remains to be seen what will replace this regime.
New authorities are in place, different rebel groups and different structures. Since Sunday, we have been giving very clear messages to the new Syrian authorities, but also to countries in the region: international humanitarian law must be respected. We will have to judge the new leaders by their actions. So far, what we're hearing is mostly positive.
At the European level, there is already talk of removing the refugee status of Syrians. Aren't we going too fast?
In 2015, the wave of refugees were people fleeing a war and an abominable regime. Here, that's not what we see. On the contrary, we very quickly saw columns of Syrians leaving Turkey and Lebanon to return home. Belgium's position is clear. I fully understand the suspension of the examination of current files because the situation has fundamentally changed. If there is a return, it must be voluntary, safe and dignified. These are the conditions for any return of refugees to their country of origin. This return of refugees must contribute positively to the reconstruction of the country, so that it is not an additional burden in an already fragile country.
On a geopolitical level, will this fall of the Bashar al-Assad regime weaken Russia's power of influence?
This is because what happened in Syria is also the result of Russia's weaker support for the Assad regime and which is probably correlated with the incredible efforts that Russia must deploy in its war against Ukraine. We see that Russia no longer wanted to support Syria as it had done until then. So this has consequences for the region. Russia had bases which served not only for its presence in Syria but which also served as a relay base for its presence in Africa, in particular with the Wagner group. As Belgian Foreign Minister, I can only hope that this fall of the regime contributes to weakening Russia's negative position in some African countries.
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How many Belgians are currently present in Syria?
At the start of the week, around ninety Belgians were counted.
Since we are talking about Russia, is Belgium planning to strengthen its aid to Ukraine?
Belgium's support for Ukraine is already very important. In financial terms as well as in terms of technical support and even military support. We have been talking about 2 billion euros since the start. And it is a support that is multifaceted. The G7 countries use what are called “windfall profits”, assets of Russian sovereign funds which are immobilized, largely in Belgium. There is interest on these assets. Belgium decided that the tax on these interests, on these profits, was paid directly into the Ukraine fund. We are talking about an amount that will accumulate to more than a billion per year.
Is this completely legal as a system?
At this time, there are no court cases. We consider the system to be legally sound. This is still based on an EU sanctions regime.
If Russia manages to invade Ukraine, what are the dangers for Europe?
I find it difficult to envisage a total victory for Russia. Because the consequences for Europe and for the world would be absolutely incalculable. Ukraine is 2000 kilometers away. It is less than Brussels-Malaga. For us, Russia cannot win, it is an existential question.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is alive and well in Belgium. Do you think that all the demonstrations and political actions taken in this direction have an impact on resolving the conflict?
There is no greater supporter of freedom of expression than Bernard Quintin, including the freedom to demonstrate within the framework of public order. This is indeed a terrible conflict. More than 1,200 victims on October 7 and since then, there have been reports of more than 40,000 victims in the Gaza Strip, plus a significant number in the West Bank. We call for an end to the violence and bombings. There must be a ceasefire and all the hostages must be released. These are the two basic conditions for being able to move forward. Ensuring that Israelis and Palestinians can sit around a table and discuss their common future. For the moment, the only viable solution we have on the table is the two-state solution.
But then, to return to my question, are the demonstrations that we see here something that can have an impact? Is this something that can be heard from the Israeli side?
I would like to believe it. I am not sure that the current Israeli government is completely receptive or attentive to what is happening elsewhere, or even to what is happening in its own country.
The president of your party, Georges Louis Bouchez, recently affirmed that it was a moral fault to use the notion of genocide when it comes to a conflict that concerns the Jewish people. Do you agree with this statement?
The qualification of genocide belongs to international courts and tribunals. Here, it is up to the International Court of Justice to determine what is happening, by taking a position. What is happening is not acceptable and must stop.
If Benjamin Netanyahu were to set foot here in Belgium, knowing that there is an international arrest warrant against him, would we have to arrest him?
Belgium's position was very clearly expressed by the Prime Minister in the House. Not only do we respect the International Criminal Court, but we will implement what it asks us to implement. There is not the space of a cigarette paper between the position of the Prime Minister and his Minister of Foreign Affairs.
You have often been presented as a file man. We sometimes forget your political side a little. You are an agent in Ganshoren. With your local role and that of minister who listens to international authorities, what is your vision of the political blockage in Brussels?
Three years ago, I agreed to become political secretary of the MR section of Ganshoren. I also served as administrator of Lojega, social housing in Jette and Ganshoren. it gives me a foundation. If we want to claim to take care of the world, we must have this local anchor. We are lucky in Brussels to have this completely incredible patchwork of nationalities, this diversity, but it must be managed properly. This blocking minority seems to me to be a smokescreen. There was nevertheless a clear message from voters, at the federal and regional level, that we must tackle the problems of Brussels head on: cleanliness, mobility, security, and all that with a budget that we can't say he's doing well. The financial situation in Brussels is catastrophic. The job of politicians now is to do something with the vote they were given. And it is not by multiplying the exclusives before even sitting around the negotiating table that we advance the schmilblick. During my career as a diplomat, I was able to attend, and sometimes even participate in, negotiations between former belligerents. Men, often men, who have gone to war with each other. Who killed people. Who saw friends of theirs, brothers killed. If these people manage to sit around the table, we can do it too.
In the diplomatic bubble, do you hear fears about these blockages?
Of course. I am questioned very regularly by the diplomats stationed here. There are concerns. We are not the only ones who have difficult coalitions to put together. But there is a side of exemplarity. We have the headquarters of the European Union, the headquarters of NATO, such a large number of international organizations… We are the world's first diplomatic capital!
Avant Washington ?
We passed Washington 5 to 8 years ago. But that comes with responsibilities, people are watching us. I'm not saying that we have to do anything because we would have external pressure, but it's not good for the image of the country. What does Brussels need? Investment. But you are not going to attract investors with some kind of bazaar. There is a kind of intellectual laziness which consists of saying “Yes, but all these people will stay all the time.”
Are you talking about EU workers?
The center of gravity of the European Union has moved significantly to the East with the enlargements of 2004. Do you really believe that there is no pressure from a certain number of countries or capitals to have their headquarters of the institutions? We must not deceive ourselves. It is something that lives and is plausible.
In Germany?
This is something that is possible. Moving all these institutions would have a huge cost. But from a certain point, political contingencies may lead to finding the necessary budgets. So, I'm not an alarmist, I'm not saying it's tomorrow. I'm not saying there's a note somewhere at the Schumann roundabout for that, but on the other hand, I'm a realist. It’s my job as Minister of Foreign Affairs to say, “be careful, it’s not indefinite”.
Would it be a big loss?
It would cost a lot, but we should not assume that all this is a given forever, neither for the European Union, nor for NATO, nor for many international organizations. Their presence is for the benefit of Brussels. The occupation of offices, the occupation of housing, daily consumption… in figures, we are talking about billions generated by the presence of all these international organizations, including the European Union. I'm one of those who think we need to do a little more to highlight that.
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