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“Whether it’s legal or not, like it or not, women have abortions”

INTERVIEW.- For the 50th anniversary of the Veil law, which legalized abortion on January 17, 1975, the writer Léa Veinstein returns to the reality of clandestine abortion, at the heart of her book Just listen to women.

On January 17, 1975, after years of heated debate, the law authorizing voluntary termination of pregnancy (IVG) was officially promulgated in . This law, known as the “Veil law”, remains associated today with the figure of Simone Veil, Minister of Health at the time, who determinedly defended the bill before a National Assembly then, “almost exclusively composed of ‘men”.

For the 50th anniversary of this law, Ina collected the testimonies of hundreds of women who aborted in secret, in pain, before the legalization of voluntary termination of pregnancy in 1975. Among them, the author Annie Ernaux and former minister Christiane Taubira. They can be found in a documentary, a series of podcasts and the book Just listen to women (1) from the pen of Léa Veinstein (to be published on January 22). For Madame Figarothe writer tells the reality of clandestine abortion. Interview.

Madame Figaro .- Your documentary Just listen to women gives a voice to those who have experienced clandestine abortion in France. What common story emerges from these interviews?
Léa Veinstein.- Although each story is personal, we observe a timeline of abortion. First, there is the discovery of the pregnancy. Usually, this moment comes as a complete surprise to women. We must remember the context of the 1960s when there was almost no sex education. So sometimes this pregnancy falls on them. This is what Gisèle Halimi recalls during her pleadings at the trial (the lawyer defended in 1972 the young Marie-Claire Chevalier, judged for having chosen to abort, Editor’s note), when she says that women must have a way of knowing how to get pregnant. In addition to the lack of knowledge about one’s own body and how it works, contraception is not at all widespread. Of course, the pill already exists but you must have parental authorization to purchase it.

Once the shock of pregnancy has passed, it’s time to decide. And one thing really struck me in the testimonies collected: the determination of the women. At the time, abortion was illegal, completely forbidden. Women generally don’t know how they’re going to do it, they have no one to talk to about it, and yet they have no doubts. The vast majority of them even say they are ready to die. There is this evidence that they do not want this pregnancy, that it is not possible.


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These women who testify about their clandestine abortion come from all walks of life…
Yes, we see all the profiles. We would tend to keep in mind a scenario of clandestine abortion such as that described by Annie Ernaux in her book The Event : a young student, around twenty years old, who lives in her university campus, who is at the beginning of her sexual life and discovers that she is pregnant. However, even if many witnesses find themselves in this scenario, there are also women who are already mothers, who already have 2 or 3 children and for whom it is simply impossible to continue the pregnancy for financial or professional reasons.

What is the journey like for those who decide to have a clandestine abortion?
Some women tell themselves that they will manage on their own. For example, by introducing knitting needles or falling down the stairs… And then, there are all the others – the vast majority – who go looking for “a solution”, “an address”, “an angel maker » thanks to word of mouth. Until very shortly before the law, until 1972, the most widespread method of abortion was the probe introduced by “angel makers”, women who sometimes did not come from the medical profession and who carry out this intervention clandestinely in their apartment in exchange for remuneration.

The vast majority of women who had recourse to clandestine abortion even said they were ready to die

Lea Veinstein

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That’s to say ?
When the women finally find a contact, we will set a price for them. They are then offered a slot to place the probe. When the act works, it causes bleeding. In most cases, once this bleeding appears, women go to the hospital claiming a miscarriage and request a curettage. The hypocrisy of the medical profession is total because the doctors know very well what is happening. And besides, it opens the door to a lot of violence. The women describe a hostile medical profession, which can commit gynecological and psychological violence, or even worse. To my greatest surprise, many testimonies mention sexual assault and rape. This is also the reality of clandestinity. As abortion happens under the radar, the woman is entirely vulnerable and subject to doctors. There is a form of implicit blackmail which forces women to wall themselves in silence. From 1972, however, another method called the “Karman method”, simpler and much safer for women, arrived from the United States and profoundly changed practices.

This clandestinity can also lead to a tragic outcome…
Yes, many women have died during clandestine abortions. We will never know how many deaths there were, but what is certain is that for a long time they were killed. The actress Ana Girardot, whose grandmother died in a clandestine abortion, also says in the documentary by Sonia Gonzalez and Bibia Pavard that for a very long time, it remained a taboo in her family. People preferred to say that his grandmother had died of appendicitis.

“You just have to listen to women”, that is the title of your work and those are also the words of Simone Veil, on November 26, 1974, before a National Assembly almost entirely composed of men. “You just have to listen to women,” and yet they were condemned to remain underground until 1975… Why did it take so long for them to have the right to abort?
Firstly because abortion came up against patriarchal and male domination of the law. Then, there is something that concerns the survival of the species, reproduction, and religious issues are never far away. In any case, until the beginning of the 20e century, abortion is an act that it seems unimaginable to make legal. Added to this are economic issues. After the Second World War, the country had to be repopulated. It was therefore inconceivable to make a law that would allow women to limit pregnancies.

What was the context in which Simone Veil presented this law in 1974?
In the years preceding the Veil law, abortions were very widely practiced. Everyone knows it and above all it’s a media subject that we talk about. In 1972, the Bobigny trial notably made it possible to put the subject in the public debate – and it was Gisèle Halimi’s goal to hold a trial for History and to highlight the hypocrisy of the law. There are also public calls to legalize abortion such as the manifesto of the 343 (a column written by Simone de Beauvoir published on April 5, 1971 in The New Observer). And then, there is the conquest of women’s rights through the voice of militant movements and feminist associations. Result: in 1974, the government had to act, it simply no longer had a choice. Knowing that there had already been a first attempt by the Messmer government (during the presidency of Georges Pompidou) to revise the law. In vain. When Valéry Giscard d’Estaing was elected president, he knew that action would have to be taken on the issue of abortion and he chose Simone Veil to lead the case.

On November 26, 1974, Simone Veil delivered a speech from the podium of the National Assembly, almost exclusively composed of men, to defend her bill to decriminalize abortion.
AFP

Fifty years later, how do you assess the progress in terms of women’s rights and access to abortion in France?
I would already mention the progress. Today, abortion is reimbursed by Social Security, which was not the case in 1975, and access to it is supposed to be guaranteed throughout the country. There are places where a woman can arrive in the morning and carry out an abortion during the day for free. This seems taken for granted but it is important to underline it when we see what is happening in certain countries. In France, the right to abortion is therefore guaranteed, it is constitutionalized and in this, this is undeniable and valuable progress.

Afterwards, of course, it is important to remain vigilant. We know that this is an extremely fragile right. The freedom of women to control their bodies is at stake and it is something that will always be in danger. And men must take charge of this question. We must ensure that this is not a “good women” subject. Finally, there are still issues to resolve. We must, for example, pay attention to deadlines and to ensure that abortion is easily accessible everywhere in France.

Also read
Éric Dupond-Moretti on abortion in the Constitution: “We must not wait until a right is threatened to protect it”

Despite these advances, the right to abortion is declining in certain countries. This is the case in Poland and in the United States where the subject was at the heart of the debate during the last presidential election. What are the main challenges today?
Abortion is a right that is constantly under threat. It can switch at any time. It is good to have it constitutionalized in France, but a Constitution can change. What is happening in the United States is not just an American issue. Throughout the world, we see the rise of an ideology hostile to women. On the side of Trump and his supporters, they are allergic to the fact that women can have control over their bodies. This is a concrete threat to American women who will have no other choice than to develop a clandestine abortion network. Because whether it’s legal or not, whether we like it or not, women have abortions.

(1) Just listen to women by Léa Veinstein, Ed. Flammarion, 288 pages, 21 euros.

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