“I don’t want my lover to be my best friend”

Two syllables, a green background, a man, in a bob and hairy coat, who caresses his dog: the cover of Philippe Katerine's eleventh album, Zouzou (name of said animal) suggests all the impertinent fantasy to which the author of “Louxor J’adore” or “La Banane” has accustomed us. Yes, Zouzou is full of humor and sweet absurdity, from “Total in the West”, a lucid observation of the state of its author to “Sous mon bob”, which extols the merits of the most malleable headgear since the invention of soft felt, through “La chanson d'Edie” in which Katerine's daughter takes, in an ultra-convincing way, the timbre of the voices of Clara Luciani, Angèle, Pomme and other singers of the time.

Mischievous and poetic, coated in rounded basses, marshmallow synths or cloudy strings, Zouzou sings the praises of domestic life, of the happiness of being with one's children (two preteens who can be heard giggling on the record, mocking their father's baldness), of “Sleeping on a Spoon” and of staying “Under the Duvet » with his beloved, to share endless nights with his friends. But also evokes the time that passes and withers us, with death at the end. An inevitable outcome which, in the philosophy of Philippe Katerine, serves to enjoy the simple pleasures of existence even more than to make us all equal. So many questions frequently addressed in the pages of Madame Figaro : the opportunity to submit to the brilliant troublemaker of French song our Revue du Madame, and to read, therefore, certain articles with him.

Madame Figaro.- Clara Luciani told us that her new album, My blood had been written to tell her son who she was, where she came from. What do you want to pass on to your children, that we hear on the record, through your songs?
Philippe Katerine.- I don't explain to them where I come from since they know it and it must be very obvious. But regarding Clara Luciani, I also read an article in which she said something that I had not realized: when you give life to someone, you also give them death. It makes you dizzy, and I had never thought about it.

However, death, and the anguish it can cause, runs through most of the songs on your record. And precisely, Delphine Horvilleur reminded us what apoptosis is: the fact that death is in life like the stone of a fruit. What does this inspire you?
Well, there are fruits without stones. And it's true that when we imagine that the fruit is eaten, we always end up with the stone, as with death. It's a fascinating subject, it's always interested me, to talk about death while I'm alive. And above all, not to leave those who remain spoiled for choice. For example, on what my tombstone should look like: in what marble, in what shape, in what cemetery… So I already have a plan for a funerary monument. Not huge, but in the shape of a foot carved from pink marble, which would also make mini golf: that way, we can play on my grave. I like this idea of ​​building your ideal house. I've never had anything built in my lifetime, I don't think I will one day, but doing it for death interests me a lot; to live somewhere without really enjoying it, but to help others benefit from it, and above all not to bother them with it.

Age, and the passage of time, are also often addressed in the record. Demi Moore rightly believes that the film The Substancein which she plays a Hollywood star refusing to be cast aside after turning 50, allows you to “fully embrace who you are”. And you, at 55, are you achieving it?
Yes, even if it is mainly the inner envelope that I talk about on the record. I was never told I was beautiful, so that was never my concern. Whether I'm old or not, seen from the outside, is a bit the same thing for me. Even though I can see that it's not the same as before, I prefer myself today than when I was 25, an age at which I find myself grotesque. When I see images again, you feel that I haven't found myself. My voice is all stuck, it's not loud. So for sure, I have lots of hair, I have smooth skin, but you can tell that I'm full of anxiety. At the time, I lived in a lot of fear.

Regarding the body, in “Nu” you sing about the merits of nudity. In an article devoted to this subject, the philosopher Marie-Aude Baronian wondered if, when we are completely naked, we are “close to ourselves, finally free or on the contrary stripped and disarmed”. What do you think?
We can be stripped down, disarmed and close to ourselves at the same time, it is not incompatible. Well, I'm rarely naked in life. When my children were very young, I would walk around peacefully naked. And now that they're 12, 13 years old, they tell me it's disgusting and cry foul.

Some also cried foul when you appeared almost naked during the opening ceremony of the Olympic Games. Aya Nakamura returned to the criticism she received for the same occasion. How did you digest all that?
It wasn't a huge problem for me. It was especially so for those who found it horrible or decadent. I was not naked; I was, basically, in the same outfit as Léon Marchand. Except it's not the same body, and maybe that's what drives you crazy.

Which brings us back to what Demi Moore said, about the fact that a body over 50 is desirable…
So I never thought mine was desirable. But I have no problem showing myself. As long as it's in the show.

Do you still like to shock and provoke? Except during the Olympic Games, you have already done it, with facetiousness, in your songs…
If I wanted to shock, it would be very easy. Besides, it's getting easier and easier. I have plenty of possibilities to shock, but provocation is not what drives me. When this happens, I find it funny. Like what happened at the Olympics, I didn't even think it would shock. Since I was born, I have lived with people who don't necessarily agree with me and I have never wanted to change their minds. I don't care if I'm wrong or right.

We did in Madame Figaro a topic on “nepo dogs”, this phenomenon of dogs who become as famous as their masters. Aren't you afraid, by posing with your dog Zouzou on the cover of your album, that she will get a big head?
Zouzou has a big head. She is of a slightly higher category, a little haughty, she is a queen. She looks at you disdainfully and you have no choice but to bow.

Why did you highlight it so much?
A dog, in a family, is a symbol. It generally lives for a dozen years, it's a fragment of time. This is what was important to me in giving its name to the record, it was to designate it as a reflection of the Zouzou years. These are very specific years, post-confinement, that I loved. The children are not yet teenagers, we play together, there has been no illness, no death, we eat our fill… We can call that happiness.

There are a lot of songs about friendship on the record, celebrated or lost like on “Frérot”, which tells of a falling out. Why did you want to address this theme of the friendly breakup?
It was a strong event which marked these 4 years. Suddenly, someone says to you “I don’t want to see you anymore”: it’s very violent, especially when there are no words put to it. I say it in the song: “It’s human to kill a man, but inhuman not to tell him why.” But I don't think things end. People find each other, they are still friends, lovers, it just takes another form. There is always a thread which, even if it is very frayed, can become stronger afterwards.

Have you since reconciled with this ex-friend?
No not at all. I have no news. Anyway, no news, good news, he must be living his life well.

Friendship holds an important place in your life. But how many best friends do you have? Cis a question we recently asked the actresses of the film Three friendsby Emmanuel Mouret…
I count them on the fingers of both hands.

But not feet?
No, just hands. Afterwards, there is a finger that can be lowered. Or get up.

We also asked the actresses in the film if considering your partner as “your best friend” doesn't harm romance… What do you think?
Oh no, I don't want my lover to be my best friend! Already, there is the physical link. And I don't talk about the same things with her and my best friend, I don't behave the same way, I don't have the same voice. They are two completely different things.

In an article on couples where one finds that the other dresses poorly, we interviewed a personal image coach who points out that our dress codes represent the tribe we want to be a part of. Which tribe do you belong to when you wear a bucket hat?
The bob is an invention of GIs during the Second World War, when they were on the go and took off their helmets to “chill” in the sun. We see things a lot less with a bob, so we stay a little in our bubble. But I rather belong to the tribe of the dead, since all the clothes I wear, given their age, are those of deceased people. I'm not a fetishist, but I tend to wear clothes from 1968, that's the year I was born. I never liked the idea of ​​buying new clothes, putting them out there gives me too much responsibility. I prefer to take over from someone. Although shoes are more difficult.

We devoted an article to Joachim Phoenix who often almost abandoned a shoot before it started, because he was afraid of not being up to the task. Has this ever happened to you?
No, because I don't get stage fright, ever before going on stage, a show or a shoot. In life, what can give me anxiety is, for example, buying something, exchanging money. It's my relationship with money that must be a little twisted. I think it comes from my father's: he often talked about it when it was lacking, and I didn't like the idea it gave me of adult life. So I did everything to try to win some, and not think about it.

You also mention your father in the title “As my little sister said”: he told you “Don’t make fun of the bourgeois / maybe one day you will be one of them”. Today, do you consider yourself as such?
Being bourgeois is in the head. The bourgeoisie don't want that to change. And I, without being revolutionary, I prefer that things change.

Zouzou, by Philippe Katerine (Wagram). On tour in 2025.